idea: show workers on map

[The diplomat]

Here is the idea:

1) have an option that the player can turn on/off which would show on the main map which tiles have a worker. I suggest a "hammer" icon on the tile to indicate if it is being worked. This would avoid making the map too confusing.

2) allow the player to switch workers to different tiles directly on the main map just like they would in the city screen.

The greatest benefit of this idea in my opinion is that it allows the player to see right away if the right tiles are being worked without needing to go to the city screen. And the player can correct things also very easily without having to see the city screen. It would make things a lot more convenient. Furthermore, it does not require any major changes in the game and would be easy to implemement programming wise.
The possible disadvantage is that it might make the map more confusing. My "hammer" icon on the tile adresses this concern.

If this idea were implemented, I would probably drop my objections to the "worker on tile" system! Since, it would make managing workers so much easier!

I am curious what everybody thinks.
Ralf: I am especially interested in your opinion since we had such fruitful debates on the city model.

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No permanent enemies, no permanent friends.

[Ralf]

Well, i think its a good idea as an optional addon, Diplomat - not as a total replacement.

I have however, nothing against Civ-3 to be as feedback customizable as possible, in order to suit every possible playing-style out there.

If some people can do with out that classic city-area view, and instead be content with the hammer-on-map option, its OK by me - as long as the latter is on/off toggle-able, and as long as that old input-able city-area view still is there to use.

Similarly, some people dont like automatic city-screen pop-ups, like in Civ-2 and SMAC. Fine - let it be on/off toggle-able. With the latter alternative turned off, the map re-centers and the city flashes, but you have to manually click the city in order to open the city-screen.

Firaxis shouldnt build themselfes into corners. Make any game-feedback optional and as tweakable as possible.

There is ONE thing they could change with the old city-area view, in order to reduce micro-management clicking somewhat. They could add 4 "Worker-placement" rules-buttons:

Radio-button 1 toggled, means: Manual override (just like in Civ-2/SMAC).

Radio-button 2 toggled, means: Automatically strive for even-out food-surplus (no growth). Any additional emphasize should be on shields.

Radio-button 3 toggled, means: Automatically strive for max two foods-surplus. Any additional emphasize should be on shields.

Radio-button 4 toggled, means: Automatically strive for maximal food-surplus for maximal fast city-growth.

[This message has been edited by Ralf (edited January 07, 2001).]

[The diplomat]

I like your suggestion a lot!

When cities are big, most of the city radius is worked so worker placement does not become as much as an issus. But in the beginning of a game, when a city is around pop of 2 or 3, and the player has terraformed 1 or 2 tiles, that managing workers becomes the most crucial.
My suggestion AND yours would both drastically help the player avoids problems at that particular time of the game.

And I agree that our ideas must be optional as much as possible, for the player to turn on/off as he/she desires.


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No permanent enemies, no permanent friends.

[DarkCloud]

The hammer icon is an interesting idea.

[Ralf]

quote: Originally posted by DarkCloud on 01-06-2001 04:47 PM The hammer icon is an interesting idea.

Its certainly is! I dont think I would be content with using this system alone, but as Diplomat points out:
"it does not require any major changes in the game and would be easy to implemement programming wise".

[This message has been edited by Ralf (edited January 06, 2001).]

[Ralf]

quote: Originally posted by The diplomat on 01-06-2001 08:47 AM And I agree that our ideas must be optional as much as possible, for the player to turn on/off as he/she desires.

I was thinking, Diplomat. That hammer option-toggle; why should it necessarily be tucket away in some two level deep configuration-menu?

What about the following alternative:

Imagine the city-area view in the middle of the city-screen. Below the view-screen you find the four similar-shaped radio 3D-buttons, mentioned above. They have the appropriate explaining symbols on them. To the left of them, you see a more elongated hammer-symbol radio 3D-button.

(with "radio-buttons" i mean that only one button can be activated at any time. If one button is pushed - any previously pushed button automatically pops out. Like buttons on an old transistor-radio).

- Button 1 activated: Manual (just like Civ-2/SMAC)
- Button 2 activated: AI-automated (no player input)
- Button 3 activated: AI-automated (no player input)
- Button 4 activated: AI-automated (no player input)
- Button 5 activated: Manual on map city-areas (no player input, in city-screen > city-area view).

This way, you can change between the systems "on fly" more easily.

The three automatic alternatives, inside the city-screen can only be used easily in conjunction with the standard input city-area view, because if you choose the hammer-on-map alternative:
how shall the the program know what to follow? Any AI-automated alternative, or your manual hammer-on-map alternative? Is there a way around this? Does it matter?

[This message has been edited by Ralf (edited January 08, 2001).]

[The diplomat]

I believe that my "hammer" icon idea can work WITH your suggestion. My suggestion is about displaying information in a cetain way. Your suggestion involves how the computer/player manages the city radius. The two ideas are complementary! In other words, the player could use your "radio buttons" and the computer would manage the city radius just as you described, then display a "hammer" in whatever tile it has workers on. The player could see directly on the map, what tiles the AI is working. So, your idea works very well WITH my idea.

But of course, your suggestion about having all options available in the city screen instead of an options menu, is EXCELLENT! It would allow the player to easily switch between options since the player could change things at any time during the game in a city screen.

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No permanent enemies, no permanent friends.

[- Groucho -]

I like the idea of being able to get at some of the City Screen functions from the main map - but could the idea be expanded? How about using filters on the main map rather than having a city screen at all?

The idea is that you would have a group of filters you could apply to the main map which would allow you to quickly change the kind of information it displays. If you want to see settlers/engineers only, you click the settlers filter, if you want to see military units only, you click the military filter, if you want to see city radii and worker allocations, you hit the worker filter, if you want to see enemy units only ... etc. etc. It would probably be best if the game came with 10 or so preset filters and then gave you the ability to modify them to suit your gameplay style.

Now I realize that there are a lot of functions in the city screen that you can't always have on screen or it would get way too cluttered. But if you wanted to get at those, you would just click the city and get the windows you need.

I guess my point is that I would like to do as much as I can from the big map. I hate going to the little map on the city screen because you lose context and start making bad choices (eg. allocating a sweet food producing square to a city which doesn't particularly need that much extra food when there is a city with an overlapping radius that would benefit far more from the square). Manual optimization of resource allocation would be a lot easier with a bigger map to work on.