France better than Germany?

[bobbo008]

Hi, I'm half-German, so don't expect this to be unbiased.

The Germans are scientific and militaristic.
The French are industrial and commercial.

How is it that the Germans CAN'T be industrial? That's pretty self-explanitory. I think one could also make a good argument that the Germans are also more of a "commercial" people than the French as well.

Next, the aggression rate. Germans are maxed out at 5, and the French are bottomed out at 1. COME ON! 40 years ago the French still had colonies and their military spending is way past Germany in relations to GDP% (Gross Domestic Product). Also, and this could start some debates, but it's true, France was the one to declare war on Germany first in BOTH World Wars. I'm not saying that the French are more aggressive, just that they shouldn't be on opposite ends of the aggression chart.

Third, I almost feel that having Napolean as one of the Great Leaders would be like having Hitler for Germany. If anyone knows anything about Nostradamus (he's French, too) then you'd know that while Hitler was the second anti-Christ, Napolean was the first (there is a third, Mabus, but that's another story).

I'm sure you can tell I'm part German by now. I have, however, enjoyed the great progression these two countries have undergone in the past decades (the Franco-German motor pushing European integration, damn, how cool is that, or is that just me?).

Finally, I'd quickly like to comment that the two greatest leaders in French history were a 17 year old girl who thought God was talking to her and a little whiny guy with an inferiority complex.

Hmm...that's a lot to type... maybe now I can look forward to some hate mail.

[Jon Miller]

this game was made by americans

Jon Miller

[badams52]

Re: France better than Germany?

bobbo,

That's what the editor's for.

Originally posted by bobbo008
Next, the aggression rate. Germans are maxed out at 5, and the French are bottomed out at 1. COME ON! 40 years ago the French still had colonies and their military spending is way past Germany in relations to GDP% (Gross Domestic Product). Also, and this could start some debates, but it's true, France was the one to declare war on Germany first in BOTH World Wars. I'm not saying that the French are more aggressive, just that they shouldn't be on opposite ends of the aggression chart.

Yes, I think this can start many debates, but the two things I want to say are: Germany had colonies till the treaty of Versailles took them away and though the French may spend more on their military, we saw what happened to their military during WWII.

[brianshapiro]

youre basing industrial trait on modern industrialism but france built up its nation on cottage industries, crafts, and workshops and much of them either by bourgeoise or govt sponsored mercantilist programs (J.-B. Colbert).
btw, France had a right to alsace-lorraine and Germans are big poopooheads. also, Austria > Germany . most of the great intellectuals and historically important leaders from the area were Austrians ; Freud, Wittgenstein, Wagner, Makart, Hitler,etc some others were german but few
Germany was always a culturally barren wasteland

sorry for making fun of your people .im sorry

[brianshapiro]

btw its also ridiculous to say france was more miltaristic than germany just because they declared war first in those cases , had colonies and large armies (like britain did), etc. its really grabbing at odds. first germany originally was composed of many cultures which in the middle ages were almost instituted on the pomp of the military and court, like prussia. then felt to constant war by princes in the german states, when it built itself up by war then by otto von bismark threatened other states like france. and i would argue , despite what some historians say today, pushed europe into world war I. i would argue this not because of who declared war first , but what was happening in the background prior to the beginning of the war, germany coaxing other nations into taking agressive stances that they knew would bring on war, the leaders of the country talking about taking over europe making the balkans economic colonies, crushing france, taking over britains empire, etc. so there is good evidence that germany just grown desiring to be a major power pulled everyone into WWI

[brianshapiro]

and alo i should note that the modern industrial state of germany was only formed through military control or cooperation , germany as an industrial state today is a type of military - industrial complex.


btw it doesnt matter that americans wrote the game a large amount of americans are part german

[Kingof the Apes]

Originally posted by brianshapiro
and alo i should note that the modern industrial state of germany was only formed through military control or cooperation , germany as an industrial state today is a type of military - industrial complex.

Germany today was not formed through military control but through projects rebuilding it from WWII. It has not had a major war since WWII.

btw it doesnt matter that americans wrote the game a large amount of americans are part german

Not really. Just as many Americans are half French.

[Kingof the Apes]

Germany in the game is based on mainly it's WWII accomplishments.
Scientific(first jet aircraft, first rocket, and an Atomic program) and Militaristic(taking on most of the world) and their UU, the Panzer.

So when Americans look on Germany, they get a vision of fierce conquerers overrunning the French. Hence the aggression levels.

[brianshapiro]

apeking

yeah i made a mistake saying germany today , but i meant modern germany before destruction.,
but germanys culture has had a history of military tradition , militarism , etc. france has had wars but for different reasons and their culture was less sustained in that way.

[War4ever]

Frances moto is "we give up" the germans are a way better civ....

and i love germany as a culture and country way more so than france and i am part french

[bobbo008]

WWI: Heir to Austrian throne assassinated. Austria-Hungary goes to move into Serbia, Russia, not wanting to lose further interest in the Balkans, mobilizes its forces against Austria-Hungary AND Germany. Austria-Hungary and Germany then, obviously, go to war with Russia. France then sides with Russia in declaring war against Germany and Britain then follows suit. You can say all of the little things you want, but war did not have to be declared.

WWII: Even British and French officials walked out after reading the terms of the treaty of Versailles. Nearly everyone at the time knew that the treaty would directly lead to another war.

I'm by no means saying that Germany isn't an aggressive country, nor am I saying that France is more aggressive than Germany, which someone misread.

"youre basing industrial trait on modern industrialism"

yup, the game is also basing Russia's "scientific" trait on modern times, too, obviously.

"France had a right to alsace-lorraine"

and I never said they didn't. It was annexed, which has happened at the end of many wars, not just the Franco-Prussian one.

"Austria > Germany"

If you want to seperate them, then I actually am AUSTRIAN. We, as in my family, don't like to distinguish between the German speaking people, as it is rather feudal (as are nationalities at a whole, sometimes, so we are very big supporters of the E.U.).

"[Germany] had colonies and large armies"

Compare the amount of German colonies with France (which had nearly all of north Africa) and Britain (1/4 of the world's landmass at one point). The entire concept of Imperialism is horrible and it's too bad America is picking it up.

"btw it doesnt matter that americans wrote the game a large amount of americans are part german"

unfortunately I think it does somewhat. Many Americans consider themselves just Americans now. A lot of the Americans who are part German are also part French, among countless other things (*cough*damn irish*cough*).

"germany as an industrial state today is a type of military - industrial complex."

I'm gonna agree with apes when I say that Germany today isn't exactly big on military, with 1.5% of GDP, compared to 3% of the U.S. (NATO requests all nations be 2%).

"but germanys culture has had a history of military tradition , militarism , etc. france has had wars but for different reasons and their culture was less sustained in that way."

and just how much more of a military history has Germany had as opposed to France?

On a side note, I'm in French 1 and German 2, but was planning to go to France this summer on the class trip.

[Jaguar]

Originally posted by Kingof the Apes
Germany in the game is based on mainly it's WWII accomplishments.
Scientific(first jet aircraft, first rocket, and an Atomic program) and Militaristic(taking on most of the world) and their UU, the Panzer.

So when Americans look on Germany, they get a vision of fierce conquerers overrunning the French. Hence the aggression levels.

Germany has attacked France three times in the past 150 years. Twice in the last 90. Would you like to say that Germany has not been a bunch of fierce conquerers overunning the French?

[Jaguar]

Originally posted by bobbo008
"youre basing industrial trait on modern industrialism"

yup, the game is also basing Russia's "scientific" trait on modern times, too, obviously.

Yes, but Germany wasn't powerful in modern times, unlike Russia. It was powerful in the 30s and 40s. Saying that Germany shoudn't be Militaristic or have a high aggression level is like saying that Egypt isn't industrious anymore so it shouldn't have the industrious trait.

[Nubclear]

Re: France better than Germany?

Originally posted by bobbo008
Hi, I'm half-German, so don't expect this to be unbiased.

The Germans are scientific and militaristic.
The French are industrial and commercial.

How is it that the Germans CAN'T be industrial?

Because it's already scientific and militaristic

[Willem]

Originally posted by Kingof the Apes

Germany today was not formed through military control but through projects rebuilding it from WWII. It has not had a major war since WWII.

Yes but it was the military-industrial complex that brought them into WWII, and also gave them the expertise to rebuild their country.