2D or 3D Animated Maps

[Tiberius]

quote: To be honest, I'm looking for a major upgrade from Civ2 to Civ3

I agree, but a major upgrade means for me something else then just 3D graphics. I expect better diplomacy, trade, AI, combat, goverment model, new ideas like rise and fall of empires, borders, tourism, news reports, no more ICS or BAB, and so on.

Of course, better graphics is a must, but I hope Firaxis will focus on the more important things I described earlier. Just to be clear: I'm for beautiful graphics. 3D? I don't know. Anyway far, far more important for me is the gameplay.

[UltraSonix]

quote: Anyway far, far more important for me is the gameplay.

Exactly - Like I said above, having 3d graphx doesn't mean a thing - the novelty would wear off very quickly...

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No, in Australia we don't live with kangaroos and koalas in our backyards... Despite any stupid advertisments you may see to the contrary...

[jrhughes98]

quote: Originally posted by Tiberius on 11-03-2000 01:37 AM I agree, but a major upgrade means for me something else then just 3D graphics. I expect better diplomacy, trade, AI, combat, goverment model, new ideas like rise and fall of empires, borders, tourism, news reports, no more ICS or BAB, and so on. Of course, better graphics is a must, but I hope Firaxis will focus on the more important things I described earlier. Just to be clear: I'm for beautiful graphics. 3D? I don't know. Anyway far, far more important for me is the gameplay.

Of course I want more than just 2D, 3D graphics!! Read my other posts in this forum to find out more.


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JRH

[Ralf]

quote: Originally posted by Ribannah on 11-02-2000 09:46 AM I much prefer the quiet, relaxing isometric view of Civ2 over 3D and animated units etc. I want to be able to think straight, can't do that if the screen is constantly demanding my attention.

I have to agree with Rib on this one. They (Firaxis) probably add animated units however. The only 3D-effect i could accept would be some kind of reliefed map (still isometric view) with (very minor) elevated increments from deep ocean all the way to mountain.

But thats about it. Wavy SMAC-style map? No thanks.

[Antonios]

I think that we must think and act like jrhughes98.We must demand from Firaxis MAJOR changes.We need a NEW game which will become the most famous game ever produced and will set new standars.Stop crying about requirements!Be more smart!Look in the future!Ask for more changes which will make the game more realistic.And be sure;when Civ3 come you will be proud for yourselves!

[jrhughes98]

Another thing that I think maps can portray is ocean surface currents. Realistically, early and middle age ships (not powered by motors) followed the ocean surface currents to their destinations; they didn't just take their own route. I think it could work in the game because when a ship travels with a current rather than against it, it should be able to travel more quickly. I think that ocean surface currents should be programmed into any map generated by the game, and that players should be able to program ocean surface currents into their own maps. Check out the following article if you like:

OCEAN SURFACE CURRENTS. The ocean surface currents are determined to a great extent by the winds. In both the Northern and Southern hemispheres, the winds blow generally from the west at high latitudes and from the east at low latitudes. They are called prevailing winds (see Wind; Weather). These winds apply a torque, or twisting force, to the surface of the oceans. It is easy to visualize how such a force would cause currents to circulate clockwise in the Northern Hemisphere, counterclockwise in the Southern Hemisphere. The currents on the western sides of the oceans, such as the Gulf Stream in the North Atlantic Ocean, are stronger than those on the eastern sides. This effect is caused by the rotation of the Earth. A water particle that moves toward either pole from the equator is subjected to a torque due to the Earth's rotation in addition to the torque applied by the wind. When the water particle moves toward the equator, however, the effect of the torque due to the Earth's rotation is reversed--it is then in opposition to the torque applied by the wind. On the western sides of oceans in both the Northern and Southern hemispheres, this causes the surface currents--which flow poleward, away from the equator--to be narrower and swifter than the complementary currents which flow toward the equator on the eastern sides of the oceans.

Ocean Currents Have Similarities
The corresponding currents in different oceans would be expected to have similar characteristics. While the movement of ocean water is in reality a complicated process, a current such as the Gulf Stream--which is the western-boundary current in the North Atlantic Ocean--has much in common with the western-boundary current of the North Pacific Ocean--the Kuroshio, or Japan Current. The eastern-boundary current in the North Pacific Ocean--the California Current--is likewise similar to the eastern-boundary current in the South Pacific Ocean--the Peru Current, or Humboldt Current. Oceanographers continue to learn more about the major ocean currents. In recent years, two currents in particular have been studied. One is the Gulf Stream; the other is a strange, recently discovered current that flows eastward along the equator, just below the surface of the Pacific and Atlantic oceans and, at times, the Indian Ocean. The Pacific Equatorial Undercurrent, also called the Cromwell Current, does not appear on the chart of ocean surface currents. The Cromwell Current is embedded in the westward-flowing Pacific South Equatorial Current. Its top is found between 150 and 300 feet (46 and 91 meters) below the ocean surface. The Cromwell Current, only about 500 feet (150 meters) thick, is 250 miles (402 kilometers) wide. Most currents shift their positions, but the Cromwell Current is always centered on the equator.

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From Compton's Interactive Encyclopedia Deluxe © 1998 The Learning Company, Inc.

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JRH

[jrhughes98]

quote: Originally posted by Antonios on 11-03-2000 03:47 PM I think that we must think and act like jrhughes98.We must demand from Firaxis MAJOR changes.We need a NEW game which will become the most famous game ever produced and will set new standars.Stop crying about requirements!Be more smart!Look in the future!Ask for more changes which will make the game more realistic.And be sure;when Civ3 come you will be proud for yourselves!

Why thank you, Antonios?! I'm glad to know that at least one person can understand my point of view.


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JRH

[UltraSonix]

Ocean currents are fine, but I just wonder if they should actually have an effect on the game, and shouldn't just there for aesthetic purposes... now there's an idea for a new thread.

quote: Stop crying about requirements!

Please don't bury your head in the sand.

quote: Be more smart!Look in the future!Ask for more changes which will make the game more realistic

Adding 3d animations are useless in this respect - it won't make the game more realistic, because after a few hours, the player will stop noticing it.

quote: I think that we must think and act like jrhughes98.We must demand from Firaxis MAJOR changes.We need a NEW game which will become the most famous game ever produced and will set new standars.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. There are very few things wrong with civ2. Certainly there are certain areas that can be overhauled or majorly improved, and those areas have been discussed, in the List or elsewhere - the graphix engine is not an area that needs considerable improvement. But it takes resources to add all the little 3d stuff, and to what end? So you can point and say, heh, there's a waterfall and there's a guys falling over it?! I'd much rather they spent all their efforts improving the parts of the game that actually needs improving. And if Firaxis does that, then the game will become "the most famous game ever produced". It doesn't need cute little sprites of waterfalls to do this.

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No, in Australia we don't live with kangaroos and koalas in our backyards... Despite any stupid advertisments you may see to the contrary...
[This message has been edited by UltraSonix (edited November 03, 2000).]

[jrhughes98]

quote: Originally posted by UltraSonix on 11-03-2000 04:50 PM It doesn't need cute little sprites of waterfalls to do this.

I didn't just dream up the idea of waterfalls on maps just for looks. I thought of this idea because waterfalls, in reality, are dangerous if boats (especially non-motored) get caught in river rapids, unable to escape, and go over the falls. Think about it.

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JRH
[This message has been edited by jrhughes98 (edited November 03, 2000).]

[Biddles]

Graphics are important, but I would rather see gameplay.

However I think that firaxis will probably go with 3D graphics. They are creating a whole new graphics engine and I don't see what the point of doing that would be if they were going to use 2D graphics (I'm sure they have plenty of 2D engines, i.e. SMAC gfx engine, that they could have used).

And to Ultra and everyone else worrying about whether it will run on your computer don't, by the time firaxis releases civ3 we will all be using Quantum Computers anyway.

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- Biddles

"Now that our life-support systems are utilising the new Windows 2027 OS, we don't have to worry about anythi......."
Mars Colonizer Mission

[ContradictioN]

Maybe it would be a good idea for Firaxis to tell us what its going to be, 3D or 2D? Then people can give proper suggestions to suit the interface.

would be a risk for them though, If they say its 3d, and most of the ppl here get angry....hmm..they may want to back it up with screenshots? when is their website comin!

[Shogun Gunner]

quote: Originally posted by UltraSonix on 11-03-2000 04:50 PM Ocean currents are fine, but I just wonder if they should actually have an effect on the game, and shouldn't just there for aesthetic purposes... now there's an idea for a new thread. quote: Stop crying about requirements! Please don't bury your head in the sand. quote: Be more smart!Look in the future!Ask for more changes which will make the game more realistic Adding 3d animations are useless in this respect - it won't make the game more realistic, because after a few hours, the player will stop noticing it. quote: I think that we must think and act like jrhughes98.We must demand from Firaxis MAJOR changes.We need a NEW game which will become the most famous game ever produced and will set new standars. People that actually do this for living (software development and software engineering) ARE FIRED for not understanding requirements. And I'm not talking about your home pc system requirements. There are lot of factors in programming. It's worthwhile understanding them...bloated code just doesn't somehow magically run itself. Fixed sp and html...thx UltraSonix

[This message has been edited by Shogun Gunner (edited November 03, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by Shogun Gunner (edited November 04, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by Shogun Gunner (edited November 04, 2000).]

[UltraSonix]

quote: I didn't just dream up the idea of waterfalls on maps just for looks. I thought of this idea because waterfalls, in reality, are dangerous if boats (especially non-motored) get caught in river rapids, unable to escape, and go over the falls. Think about it.

In that case I completely disagree with the idea - it's too minor and would increase micromanagement unecessarily.

quote: And to Ultra and everyone else worrying about whether it will run on your computer don't, by the time firaxis releases civ3 we will all be using Quantum Computers anyway.

Maybe not quite, but I'm not that worried about the sys reqs. I'm more worried about them wasting their time on an aspect of the game that it relatively unimportant.

And Shogun G, I didn't understand your post, you might want to check out this very funny thread for how to use quotes... Anyway:

quote: There are lot of factors in programming.

Exactly - so they shouldn't bother trying to design a Quake 3 rivalling graphx engine, just try to focus on the things that needs to be fixed/improved. Waterfalls aren't one of those things.

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No, in Australia we don't live with kangaroos and koalas in our backyards... Despite any stupid advertisments you may see to the contrary...

[Tiberius]

quote: Of course I want more than just 2D, 3D graphics!!

The fact that you want more than just 3D graphics for Civ3 is a good thing, but you can't just simply say "I want 3D graphics AND all the other stuff". Firaxis must focus on certain areas of the game development. What I (and many others) am saying is that Firaxis should focus on AI, diplomacy, trade, etc... and, if they still have time and resources, on graphics. Only then and only if this doesn't hurt the gameplay.

[jrhughes98]

I believe in setting high standards for the 21st Century.


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JRH