New Governments

[Ribannah]

quote: Originally posted by Christantine The Great on 11-27-2000 08:40 PM Under a true democracy the people can vote for ANYONE they want to. They do not need to constantly vote for Democrats, as under a Republic you don't need to vote for Republicans.

Like I said, that's where Communism and Democracy differ. A Republic may or may not have parties, but "you" don't get to vote anyway. Only the "elite" can vote in a Republic.

quote: Communism is an economic model. Dictatorships usually use a combination of a secret police and a communist economy to keep the people of a country in check.

Get real! Dictators don't consider industries etc. state- or people-owned, they consider them their personal property. A Communist government is not a dictatorship.

quote: In Civ II the designers favored a Democratic government probably because they lived in a democratic republic (U.S.). They made democracy the "best" government with the communist government that history shows us in second place. Each government should have its strong points that other governments cannot have.

Well, the 3 "modern" governments do. It depends entirely on how you play the game whether Democracy, Communism or Fundamentalism is best.

quote: Maybe, along with the regular choices, there should be a panel of check boxes on the side of the screen that differ from each type of government. The check boxes would be small changes you could do to your government to further refine it.

I agree, refinement is a nice option . I prefer Social Engineering (as in SMAC) to accomplish this.


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If you have no feet, don't walk on fire

[Dom Pedro II]

A Communism does NOT have to have one party in power if they have a Constitution. I assume that you mean that the Communist party must remain in power to keep a Communism. That's only been true in the Communist governments we've seen. But if the requirements of the government are clearly written out in their responsibility of controlling all industry and the entire market, then any party can come into power without toppling the Communist government.

[Ribannah]

Chances are that a second party would want to change the constitution .

Btw DarkCloud here is yet another government type: the military Junta.

- Rib -

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If you have no feet, don't walk on fire

[N35t0r]

quote: Originally posted by Ribannah on 11-28-2000 08:00 AM Btw DarkCloud here is yet another government type: the military Junta. - Rib -

Like, no unhappiness. Population decreases, lowering of science, more money, like the facist patch for civ2 if you ask me.

lots of unhappiness if changing into a democracy.

may replace anarchy for modern age.

[DarkCloud]

Ribannah- the "Junta" if that truly is a utopic society, it is not possible (even though this is merely a game) human nature forbids it. We achieved what we are through conflict and competition, much like other animals, but with our intelligence we did much better in evolution.

A Republican is not from a Republic, and a Democrat is not from a Democracy, Christantine; they evolved for different reasons- someone such as S. Kroeze possibly could tell us the exact reasons, so I will let him.

[Ribannah]

quote: Originally posted by DarkCloud on 11-28-2000 09:20 PM Ribannah- the "Junta" if that truly is a utopic society, ...

Huh? Of course it isn't, far from it! It has many disadvantages. But it IS a government type that is often used in the real world.

- Rib -



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If you have no feet, don't walk on fire

[Roman]

Who suggested junta is an utopian government?!? It is rule by millitary generals and usually involves large amounts of corruption and incompetence (not always though eg. WWII Japan). I agree though that it should be included as a form of government.

[Roman]

Some more theoretical government types (though I don't think they should be included unless the game continues far into the future, which I oppose and even then...):

Cryptocracy - secret rule (ie. the government is "hidden", so nobody knows who rules. It could also involve a democracy on the surface but in reality...)

Technocracy - rule primarily by scientists (and the educated elite)

And one historical gov: Oligocracy - the rule by merchants

[Tical_2000]

quote: Originally posted by Roman on 11-29-2000 02:48 PM Some more theoretical government types (though I don't think they should be included unless the game continues far into the future, which I oppose and even then...): Cryptocracy - secret rule (ie. the government is "hidden", so nobody knows who rules. It could also involve a democracy on the surface but in reality...) Technocracy - rule primarily by scientists (and the educated elite) And one historical gov: Oligocracy - the rule by merchants

Some of these sound more like ideologies than government types.

[Christantine The Great]

quote: A Republican is not from a Republic, and a Democrat is not from a Democracy,

Sorry.

quote: A Communist government is not a dictatorship.

That is not what I said. I said that in Civ II, they describe a communist dictatorship in the Civlopedia entry for Communism.

[Dom Pedro II]

My final point on Communism: I think that the fundamental principals and theory of Communism are what should be honored in the game. We should disregard Communism's success or the governments that have developed when Communists have come to power. The theory of communism says NOTHING about a dictatorship.

And Ribannah, the trouble is that you automatically assume that the parties would be divided into Communist and Capitalist. They probably have several parties of Communists as we here in every capitalist country have separate parties. Are Democrats and Republicans in favor of two entirely different kinds of government (no jokes please)? No, in fact a Communist party would have no meaning if Capitalism didn't exist. Everybody would be Communist, but they wouldn't call themselves that. And even if there were some small right-wing Capitalist group, they would have to have the power in a legislative body to make alterations to the Constitution.

[Daddy-O]

I am not sure how each of these governments should effect the game. But I would like to see more of a tree progression through the government types instead of the ladder progression that is in CIV2.

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'I want to be hand counted and checked for dimples.'

[DarkCloud]

HsFB's post made me think it was a utopia.

Oligarchy- is that a market economy, I thought it was rule by women? or kings.

quote: Cryptocracy - secret rule (ie. the government is "hidden", so nobody knows who rules. It could also involve a democracy on the surface but in reality...) Technocracy - rule primarily by scientists (and the educated elite)

I believe these may be too far into the future for Civ, but I may be mistaken.

[Christantine The Great]

Oligarchy-Rule by small group of people.

It is kind of like a provisional government where a group of high ranking people might run the country for a while until a new leader can be chosen.

[JamesJKirk]

Rule by women is a Matriarchy.

A Technocracy is ruled by educated bureaucrats, not scientists, it's a more modern version of a Plutocracy, they're expected to make the best choices for the people since they can "understand" political decisions and make the best decision for everyone.