How to avoid cultural flipping when taking over cities

[ProPain]

Originally posted by fittstim
Actually, having a lot of troops in the city will make it MORE LIKELY to flip. I don't know if this is a bug, a built-in cheat or what but it has been proven over and over by various people on this forum (including myself).

If you stick a lot of nice, valuable troops in a freshly captured city and it flips, reload the game, capture the city but leave the troops outside. Violá! No flip. Weird but true.

Originally posted by TacticalGrace
NOT TRUE! NOT TRUE!

This has been brought up on the boards before and you've miss understood something fundamental.

Even under the worst circumstances, the odds of a flip are still low (though it doesn't seem that way when it happens to you), say 1 in 10 or 1 in 20. So it you reload and do ANYTHING you are more likely NOT to have a flip.

Moving troops into a city does decrease the chance of a flip.

I think you both are partly right.
Putting more troops in a city decreases the chance of a flip but somehow having no troops at all seems to make the chance to flip the smallest. This has nothing to do with the random seed as some say, since I always play with preserved seed and have experienced flipping, reloaded and removed troops and... no flip. When I reload and fiddle around with the amount of troops (a little more, a little less) I still get a flip. I do think this is some no-troops bug and have seen more people report it. So if I want to capture instead of raze, I capture, move in lots of troops (1st turn you never get a flip) to end the revolt and move everybody out the next turn. Just station an offensive unit next to the city in case it flips anyway so you can recapture it.

The tactic where you try to move your opponents capital far away from his homeland works pretty ok also. I have seen people giving away one of their core cities next to their own capital to a powerfull island civ. Capture the other civs capital , other civs capital moves to the donated city. Once powerfull civ ends up totally corrupted and captured cities are less likely to flip because the capital is sooo far away. Take care though, you must be pretty sure the capital will move to the city you gave away otherwise you'll end up a production powerhouse less.

ProPain

[Iskandar Reza]

Why bother to go through all that length? Just station your troops outside the city after they've healed. Build only improvements not related to culture (cause if it flips it's gone). Keep on rolling till you've taken all the continental cities of the AI you're at war with.

However,it seems to help to be culturally stronger than your conquest, and to have enough luxury supplies. I don't know if this is really true or a string of very odd coincidences, but i noticed that happy cities (more happy citizens than unhappy) tend not to flip.

[ProPain]

Happy citizens help or rather unhappy citizen increase the chance of flipping. So luxuries do help. Pulling them all of their work making them entertainers whilst starving to death makes them happy too and thus helps. Strange but true.

ProPain

[TacticalGrace]

Originally posted by ProPain
Putting more troops in a city decreases the chance of a flip but somehow having no troops at all seems to make the chance to flip the smallest. This has nothing to do with the random seed as some say, since I always play with preserved seed and have experienced flipping, reloaded and removed troops and... no flip. When I reload and fiddle around with the amount of troops (a little more, a little less) I still get a flip. I do think this is some no-troops bug and have seen more people report it.

I think it is more likely that your moving of troops is somehow changing the random seed. All that you need to do is reload and do somehting that prompts one more or one less random number to be generated before the culture-flipping calculation is done and you'll get a different result, even with seed preservation on.

[ProPain]

Is random seed affected by just moving troops? I thought only attacks, popping goody huts and things like that 'use' a random number.

ProPain

[fittstim]

Originally posted by TacticalGrace

by mute do you mean it is silent...???

do you mean that it is a moot point?

Geez...there's nothing worse than a native speaker pointing out someone's spelling or grammatical mistake.

Don't want to join the ranks of Coracle, do we TG???

[TacticalGrace]

Originally posted by fittstim


Geez...there's nothing worse than a native speaker pointing out someone's spelling or grammatical mistake.

Don't want to join the ranks of Coracle, do we TG???

are you suggesting that ArmaGeddin isn't a native speaker?

and don't get me started on the fact that where ArmaGeddin resides there are two quite different meanings for a moot point...

[Cyclotron]

Moving troops out or into a city changes the random seed because the CF calculation must be re-done for the new amount of troops. Thus, people report a "more troops is bad" result because they re-set the random seed by moving troops out.

[Naiveplayer]

If you put the governor in control, and the whole populace is in resistance, the governor will automatically make them entertainers, starving them down. And it'll put back the city in production once the resistance fades.

[Coracle]

Originally posted by Theseus
Coracle, you crack me up.

Are you still playing (with CF turned off, obviously)?

Not playing unless CF can be turned off. Didn't buy PTW as I figured it would be a buggy beta hunk of junk - and I was right. I believe you can only turrn off CF with PTW.

So the answer is 'no'.

BTW, I never demanded a simple on/off toggle for CF. I wanted it FIXED and improved, and to MAKE SENSE. But that would be too much for Firaxis.

You think this garbage flip Alexman posted made sense? His strategy was destroyed owing to a ridiculous flip to a defeated tiny civ across the sea. I don't have hours of time to waste on nonsense like this, which makes no sense in game terms, historically as a simulation, and PROLONGS TEDIOUS WARS as we have to exterminate entire civs to prevent stupid flips.

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=58421&highlight=It+Finally+Happened

[Propaganda]

About CF...

If I'm correct in saying this, and correct me if I'm wrong if I'm not, but CF can be "fixed" by going into the Difficulty tab in the Editor(PTW one, that is), and bumping up the number of "citizens quelled by military." I think this might work.

[bongo]

A think CF is a nice touch, apart from one thing. Why do my troops disappear?? Lose some of them yes, have them relocated fine, beaten up ok, but dissappear?? All of them???

Remember slave revolts in CTP? That's a good starting point for how CF's should deal with troops in cities.

[theNiceOne]

Originally posted by bongo
A think CF is a nice touch, apart from one thing. Why do my troops disappear?? Lose some of them yes, have them relocated fine, beaten up ok, but dissappear?? All of them???

I don't even have a problem with the units disappearing. When the eastern Europe countries culture flipped from Soviet to Western Europe, their military units flipped with them.

[bongo]

Thats different, they flipped with them, they didn't disappear.

BTW It was more like an alliance breaking up than a culture flip.

[planetfall]

Originally posted by bongo
A think CF is a nice touch, apart from one thing. Why do my troops disappear?? Lose some of them yes, have them relocated fine, beaten up ok, but dissappear?? All of them???

Remember slave revolts in CTP? That's a good starting point for how CF's should deal with troops in cities.

I like CF but 2 aspects about it annoy me:

1. harder to get AI to flip than my cities flip

2. losing all troops when my city flips.

Improved method would be using something like turns of anchary. Lose first 2 units, then percentage of rest of losses is based on RNG.

== PF