Top 10 of new tech

[Ribannah]

Hundreds of suggestions have already been posted, but we have to limit ourselves or the game will be unplayable Hence my effort to list the most important ones. Some Civ II techs could be left out, too, to compensate. Here goes in arbitrary order:

[1] The Mill
<- engineering
-> polders, ecology
[2] Printing
<- literacy, chemistry
-> labor union, telecommunication
[3] Socialism
<- communism
-> guerillas, labor union
[4] Liberalism
<- the corporation
-> multinational, human rights
[5] Human Rights
<- labor union, liberalism
-> activists, "Abolishment of Slavery", ecology
[6] Ecology
<- recycling, the mill,
-> windmill, environmentalism
[7] Telecommunication
<- printing, electronics
-> television network, rocketry
[8] Artificial Intelligence
<- computers, psychology
-> space colonies
[9] Pharmaceutics
<- medicine, chemistry
-> "Contraception", genetic engineering
[10] Psychology
<- theology, tactics
-> children's creche, artificial intelligence

Tell me if you think something should be replaced!

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If you have no feet, don't walk on fire

[DarkCloud]

Could you please expand on some of your ideas?
and describe what exactly they will do.

[UltraSonix]

I like the techs, but I think that there should be more than 10 new ones - civs should eventually be able to go down tech tree paths - ie they don't research all the techs available.

Just a small thing, though -

quote: "Abolishment of Slavery"

Doesn't this mean that there'll have to be slavery in the game to begin with (which I think is very un-civ)?

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No, in Australia we don't live with kangaroos and koalas in our backyards...
[This message has been edited by UltraSonix (edited September 14, 2000).]

[Ribannah]

quote: Originally posted by DarkCloud on 09-13-2000 09:55 PM Could you please expand on some of your ideas? and describe what exactly they will do.

Sure !

Polders = allows settlers to change water into (grass)land and vice versa

Guerillas = units, like the Partisans in Civ2 (the Guerilla Warfare tech can be dumped, the line communism-gw-labor union in Civ2 is all wrong)

Multinational = city improvement, increases the yield of trade routes at both ends

Activists = units, uncontrolled by the player but with flag, will randomly occupy squares within the radius of foreign cities without causing an international incident, if that civ has not yet discovered human rights. After the discovery of ecology, activists will also occupy and possibly pillage squares near cities (even your own ) that generate pollution

Abolishment of Slavery = wonder, makes all extra-unhappy citizens in the world merely unhappy and stops Slavery - see elsewhere - for everybody

Windmill = city improvement, gives a set amount of shields that do not generate pollution

Television Network = city improvement, gives some happy citizens (the effect of your collossea and cathedrals - and yes, also Mike's - should run out upon the discovery of telecommunication)

Space Colonies = small colonies within the solar system (city map only, terrain improvements already in place but no farmland), founded by settlers, cities no larger than size 8 but with a double yield

Contraception = wonder, changes the effect of "We Love" days from growth into an extra arrow for every civ that has discovered Pharmaceutics

Children's Creche = city improvement (SMAC), reduces the number of colums to fill for city growth

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If you have no feet, don't walk on fire

[Evil Capitalist]

Some suggestions-
Nationalism
<- explosives, printing
-> Conscription, Nationalist govt., Militia

Advanced Economics
<- Corporation, Automobile
-> Recyling, Keynes' General theory (wonder), Corruption decreases

[Ribannah]

Yeah, seen those before, but the question is: what to leave out?

Socialism seems much more important than Nationalism to me (Nationalist gov? What is that?), same with Psychology vs yet another Economy tech (which should be Econometrics, rather).

But try and make a case!

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If you have no feet, don't walk on fire

[DarkCloud]

Some ideas:
------
*Bartering
*-Barterer (U) [see notes]
(Pottery)

1.Barterer-
When he goes into an allied city, he can buy units for half the
price that they would cost to build.
Cost: 30
(Bartering)
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Alphabet
*-School (C)

2.School-
Increased Science by 25% cumulative with university but NOT
Library.
(Alphabet)

3.University-
Increased Science by 50%, cumulative with school but NOT
Library.
(University)

4.Library-
Increased Science by 50%, cumulative with nothing.
(Writing)
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*Wood Carving
*-Canoe (U)
(Alphabet)

5.Canoe-
The canoe can traverse rivers and carry up to 2 units. 1-1-1
Cost: 20
(Wood Carving)
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I have a list of more of these, if anyone is interested. I was working on a comprehensive list of things to include in Civ and was only 1/8th finished when I gave it up for a while.

P.S. The entire tech tree was remodeled but not redesigned

[Evil Capitalist]

Another one that is needed- Classical music. This could give access to things like JS Bach's Cathedral, rather than theology. Also 'Opera house' (This is a very important 19th century improvement that could decline with the advent of television).

That's a point, we need Television. The tube is vital!
[This message has been edited by Evil Capitalist (edited September 15, 2000).]

[Tiberius]

I agree with Ultrasonix, we need more than 10 new techs. I hope there will be minor techs in Civ3 (civs could specialize themselves in major techs researching minor techs = multiple tech tree paths). Using multiple tech tree paths would change of course the entire tech trading system.

Otherwise the techs described above sound interesting.

[Ribannah]

quote: Originally posted by Tiberius on 09-15-2000 10:10 AM I agree with Ultrasonix, we need more than 10 new techs. I hope there will be minor techs in Civ3 (civs could specialize themselves in major techs researching minor techs = multiple tech tree paths). Using multiple tech tree paths would change of course the entire tech trading system.

I am certainly not opposed to more than 10 new techs, and multiple paths is a way to make room, better than how it was done in Master of Orion.

But the trouble is, there are so many choices, even for mutiple paths! I have a hundred on my own grosslist already, ranging from Paganism and The Needle to Dreamscape and Regeneration. We just can't include them all.

So I think it would be a great help for Firaxis if we could agree on the most important ones, those that can't be left out.

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If you have no feet, don't walk on fire

[wernazuma]

Some suggestions:
Philosophy+Monotheism->Enlightenment
Jewish faith is monotheistic but not a "prophetic" religion, speaking to ALL MANKIND. The advance "Enlightenment" could make "Missionary"-Units possible or more effective.

I'd say "Liberalism" and "Human Rights" are older than "Labor Union" and "Corporation".
So my suggestion for the tech-path would be rather:
Economy+Printing Press -> Liberalism
Enlightenment+Liberalism -> Human Rights

[DarkCloud]

Well then, I think at min the new game should include 10 new techs and at max it should contain 25 new techs.

More Ideas:
-----
*Advanced Hull Making
*-Longship (U)
(Ship Building)

12.Longship
2-2-2 can carry 1 unit.
Cost: 40
(Advanced Hull Making)
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*Police State
*-Police (U)
*-Police Station (C)
*-Police State (Government)
(Code of Laws, Communism)

*The Republic
-Republic (Government)
(Mathematics, University)

Navigation
-Caravel (U)
-Magellans Expedition (W)
*-Fishing Boat (U)
*-Fishing Nets (T)
(Seafaring)

8.Police-
Police have a rating of 1-1-1, but they make 2 unhappy people content
or 1 content person happy in a city. Limit of two police per city.
Cost: 70
(Police State)

9.Police Station-
All previous benefits remain in addition to; police can now make
2 content people happy in a city.
(Police State)

10.Police State Government-
Very restrictive, all units up to 4 are supported free.
Maximum rates: 60%; No Luxuries Allowed or Entertainers.
Police make 3 unhappy people content, limit increased to three.
(Police State)

11.Fishing Boat
A settler in the water. Beginning function: (Fishing Nets +1 food)
Cost: 50
(Navigation)

[wernazuma]

I think there should be special technologies that make certain city improvements obsolete. For example the advance "Leisue Industry" makes coliseums obsolete and you'd have to build "sport stadions" in your city to get the same effect. Or "Libraries" with the advance of "Printing Press" are something probably every town will have automatically and aren't built anymore by "public effort".

This idea is somehow already realized with the barracks, but it could be expanded on a larger scale.

[Evil Capitalist]

A flaw wwith the police idea- The first proper police force was founded in London in the 1830s. Communism was quite some time after that. I would switch communism and Railways

[Imran Siddiqui]

Definetly need Fascism! I don't know what leads to it (maybe automobile and Liberalism - it did blossom from anti-liberalism) and what comes off of it.