An Easy Way to Make the AI 3 Times as Strong...

[hexagonian]

AI bonuses in modded CTP2 (Cradle)...

-- anywhere from 110%-140% for civs in front of the human player on the power graph on Impossible for Cradle.
-- 400% to 500% if the computer AI is hopelessly behind the human player.

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't civ3 bonuses along the lines of 200% on the highest level for all civs???

-- as for upgrades, the AI upgrades for free - the human pays a gold cost, but gold is acutally easily generated in CTP2, so a good player usually has no problem covering the costs.

Of course there are cheats built into both the civ3 and CTP2 systems. I can always point to the civ3 AI beelining to undefended cities and beelineing to hidden strategic resources.

The point I'm trying to make is that if the civ3 AI could upgrade units, it would help the civ3 AI immensely.

In CTP2 we have the tools to alter the game to handle a variety of things that players may want to include in the game, whereas civ3 seems to have less flexability to impliment those changes. For players who may want to see a civ-style game include some of these issues, CTP2 is a good alternative.

Knowledge is good...

[Harovan]

Originally posted by hexagonian
Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't civ3 bonuses along the lines of 200% on the highest level for all civs???

Yes, you are wrong. The AI bonus +67% at deity (10/6), +25% at emperor (10/8), +11% at monarch (10/9), 0% at regent (10/10). At warlord the human gets a bonus of 20% (12/10) and at chieftain of 100% (20/10).

-- as for upgrades, the AI upgrades for free - the human pays a gold cost

Thought so. No reason for gloating.

The point I'm trying to make is that if the civ3 AI could upgrade units, it would help the civ3 AI immensely.

It eagerly upgrades, if it has money. If not, you should move a level up. If you're already at deity, you can mod (yes, indeed) the AI bonus up to 900%.

Knowledge is good...

ACK.

[hexagonian]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
Thought so. No reason for gloating...

I'm with Boris on this - cheats do not bother me if the end result is a better game for the player... Actually the civ3 AI beelines to resourses/undefended cities are somewhat minor, IMO.

So what you are saying is that on Deity, the civ3 AI does not have a problem upgrading units? Are all the spearmen gone by Modern times? (...almost forgot that spearmen can beat tanks, so maybe upgrading is over-rated.)

Or is that still a problem, even on the highest levels, and players have to artificially boost the AI even more to cover the costs??? If so, it works out to be the same type of cheat that has been modded into CTP2...

I have said it before - there are a lot of good things about civ3 that I like - and there are a lot of things that I feel are flawed though (and Boris' assertion about Railroads is a big one for me)

And yes, CTP2 does have its flaws too!!!

[Harovan]

Originally posted by hexagonian
So what you are saying is that on Deity, the civ3 AI does not have a problem upgrading units? Are all the spearmen gone by Modern times?

On deity, you will have problems to upgrade your units much more than the AI, I guarantee you. Cavalries (AI) against Spearmen (you), anyone? It's still beatable, after all it's only a stupid AI, but it's damn hard.

The AI upgrades units in fact better than the human does, given it has money. At the higher level usually it has plenty of it, at least beginning in the industrial age, but often earlier. It upgrades units equally in all cities, perhaps it should favor border cities first. So if its cities have an average of 3 defenders, it upgrades first one of them in all cities, then the second in all cities and last the third. Try to attack a civ shortly after it discovered Replaceable parts. You'll be surprised, how many infantries you meet.

It upgrades defenders properly. What really is the problem is, that it hangs around too long with obsolete attackers, namely Swordsmen and Longbowmen. They don't upgrade in the original game, and the AI does never disband units. So if it didn't have a war for a long time, it may go after you in the industrial age with swords and longbows, because its silly indicator tells, that it has enough offensive units and it won't build the modern ones. That problem is gone with PTW, as both units now have an upgrade path.

(...almost forgot that spearmen can beat tanks, so maybe upgrading is over-rated.)

Aren't we gloating again? Well, I play Civ3 for a year now, and didn't see that infamous anti tank spearman yet. I only once had a Modern Armor retreating from a battle with a spearman (the 6th defender of Lyons), but not dying. That was it, for perhaps 40 or 50 full games I had.

Or is that still a problem, even on the highest levels, and players have to artificially boost the AI even more to cover the costs???

The "vanilla" AI is competitive enough for the "vanilla" (average) player, and doesn't need to be modded. Sure, good players will always find a way to beat it and will try to modify the game to make it better. See player1's mod for instance, or the Apolyton university mod. Sure, Civ3 is not as moddable as CtP2, but at least the mods are stable, cause no confusions and crashes.

[Jon Shafer]

The best way I reason to make the AI tougher would be to give it economic advantages then. I don't really like the concept of the AI starting with 3 cities when I only get one (on Deity, start near an AI civ or two and you're dead, guaranteed), but if they have better units with which to fight then I can live with some AI cheating in that respect.

[Theseus]

I've posited for a long time that on-hand gold has been the biggest problem for the AI civs... no longer.

Gotta new concept for you guys: we're all seeing an improvement in the AI civs in PTW... I think it is exacerbating the winner / loser cycle, and thus 'selecting' targets for the human player.