Why do I want PTW?

[vmxa1]

Cidifer, just them to hang in 6 months and we will get bundle of some sort for a good price.

[Cidifer]

yeah that's there plan but it would suck to have to wait 6 months before I could play a fun game with all humans. Basically that's what they are saying "once the price goes down" but if they release more add-ons the price may not go down, look at the sims, they've just recently made a bundled version of the game, also whenever another add-on came out the previous ones still cost the same amount (though there were sometimes special offers at alot of places)

[Chronus]

Re interface improvements: The trade advisor will include information about your current deals, so you don't need to contact other civs just for deal checking.

You have GOT to be JOKING! Are you serious? Is there someplace that this can be confirmed?

Hallelujah! I hope this is true!

By the way, having Manhattan be a small wonder is pretty cool as well.

[The Templar]

What would Manhattan provide as a small wonder? Effective mass transit? Fashion? Theater? DJ culture? Sounds odd, especially given that Wall Street is already a small wonder.

[lockstep]

Originally posted by Chronus
You have GOT to be JOKING! Are you serious? Is there someplace that this can be confirmed?

It's not the trade advisor, but the foreign advisor - anyhow, here's the confirmation: http://www.gamespy.com/asp/image.asp.../civ3ptw/5.jpg.

Re Manhattan Project: AFAIK, it should possible now to make it a small wonder with PtW's editor, but this tweak will not be included in the standard game.

[vmxa1]

WhaT I hope it would be is that no more of my building MO and now all backward civs know about nukes? You must build your own SW first. Better yet, if I could just disable nukes.

[Nubclear]

(This may sound Coracle, so beware)

I'm not buying it personally because it just doesnt have the bang for the buck. New civs, MP (which in all likelyhood I'll never use), new map features, some new units, and more things to build just aren't worth it to me because they just dont change (in a major way) the way the game feels and plays...

Many of the problems I had with the first game won't be corrected, and many things probably weren't implimented here so that they can be put into the next (and possibly third, fourth) expansion. Has the UN been upgraded? Is there diplomacy in the editor? How about that combat system? What about that annoying feature of the editor where it just can't give you a perfect (or near perfect) map?

Also....I just have a moral thing against companies who are blatantly holding things back simply to milk more money out. Yes, they are out to get money and yes, they do need money to pay their bills...But I do think Civ3 generated enough money. Quite a few games have not gotten to that yet the developers are still able to pay their bills...So to me, PtW seems so held back as if their going for another expansion pack so they can milk 100+ out of everyone. And I just dont hold a company like that in high regard.

But I suppose that's just me, because apparently there are many people who will be buying it. I just won't be one of them.

[Cidifer]

Well you made good points to support your choice...
hopefully we wont get people yelling "WHAT YOU THINK THEY SHOULD GIVE YOU EVERYTHING FOR FREE? THEY HAVE TO EAT"

[vmxa1]

A perfecly rational position. In fact you may be correct about the value. I am making a completely emotional choice to buy and maybe I will even regret it, as I have many others.

[Alex]

My choice is also emotional by nature. I recognize that they are just milking the original Civ3, and that some of the features had to be included in the original back then.

But I'll buy it anyway, it is not a rational decision for me. And, of course, it'll contain the wonderful watercolor terrain tileset by WarpStorm!!

[Random Passerby]

I see an interesting dichotomy that tends to come up in this sort of argument.

Complaint #1 is that Firaxis shoveled everything out the door too quickly and came up with a broken product that had far too many untested features.

Complaint #2 is that Firaxis was holding back too much and withheld too many features to develop them farther for further product expansions.

OK, look--if you eat the cake, then you're not gonna have no cake any more. Is that plain enough for you?

[nbarclay]

Building software in increments is a completely valid software development strategy. It is simply not possible for a finite number of programmers to do everything that anyone could possibly want done at once. That being the case, an incremental strategy lets customers get an initial version of the software with some capabilities now, and other versions with more capabilities later, instead of having to wait for every desirable feature to be implemented before they can buy a product.

Such approaches are followed throughout the software industry, not just with games. And personally, I'm glad I've had Civ 3 for so long without having to wait for the features in PtW to be implemented, and I'll be glad to have the features in PtW without having to wait for the features in whatever expansion pack follows that to be implemented.

Nathan

[Cidifer]

My only problem is with the editor, they basically told us we'd have a good editor and when the game came out it was basically a pile of junk. Another problem that I understand is that they said they were trying to get multiplayer in the origanal game, and then they said it might be in an update. I think that when the game came out they knew it was coming in an expansion but wouldn't just come out and say it because they knew it may hurt sales.

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by Random Passerby
I see an interesting dichotomy that tends to come up in this sort of argument.

Complaint #1 is that Firaxis shoveled everything out the door too quickly and came up with a broken product that had far too many untested features.

Complaint #2 is that Firaxis was holding back too much and withheld too many features to develop them farther for further product expansions.

OK, look--if you eat the cake, then you're not gonna have no cake any more. Is that plain enough for you?

Ok, either Firaxis is very bad at making games, or they choose to withold features so that they can get more money. I personally believe the latter as opposed to the former (as they HAVE made good games before, and they ARE out for a large profit)

When people argue, you'll find that as a whole there are many contradictions. Its the contradiction you subscribe to that counts.

[wervdon]

(This may sound Coracle, so beware)

It doesn't really, you don't seem to be posting just to get a reaction out of people

I'm not buying it personally because it just doesnt have the bang for the buck.

What I actually wanted to respond to. Same here I very seriously doubt I play multiplayer. The other features are alright, but not worth $30 to me. Also, with my impending graduation, my game funds are rather limited, so I have to make a choice between ptw or moo3, and well moo3 definately looks like more bang for the buck as you put it Not to insult firaxis though, civ3 (even in the form it shipped, but especially with 1.29) was alot of bang for the buck....my guess is for me that it didnt even end up costing 20 cents per hour of time I spent playing it

many things probably weren't implimented here so that they can be put into the next (and possibly third, fourth) expansion.

While, I do agree that they probally intended to do an expansion from day1, I dont think they intentionally made an inferior product to do so. As a programmer myself, I know the biggest limitation in what you can do is time. They could not of published civ3 with the same feature set as ptw without delaying it until about now anyways. I don't know about you, but ive had fun with civ3 over the last year, so im not wishing they had delayed it Also just throwing a bunch of additional programmers on the team wouldn't necessarily speed it up alot (even if they could afford it) since you also increase the management complexity with larger teams.

Has the UN been upgraded? Is there diplomacy in the editor? How about that combat system? What about that annoying feature of the editor where it just can't give you a perfect (or near perfect) map?

Hmmm, now those are some features that i'd probally pay $30 for, hopefully in a gold edition that comes with the ptw features too :P Cept for the last part about the "perfect" map, I dont know what you mean by that. The other big thing id like to see is enhanced diplomacy and better espionage. Such as spy missions to create wars between rivals, or the diplomacy option from smac where you could get two civs to call off their war.

-----
Anyways, that might of made me come off as a firaxis apologist, but I really can't fault them for how they did civ3. It certainely had its flaws, but all in all it was definately worth paying for in my opinion at least. And I wish I could say the same thing about ptw, but from the stuff I've seen I can't unless your really into multiplayer :P