Scientific Civs' Free Techs?

[Catt]

I almost always play random civs which means that I get a scientific civ about every third time I play (though it seems like less often), so I don't have a ton of experience with scientific civs.

Scientific civs get a free technology upon advancing into a new age. Does anyhone know how that free tech is chosen? Is it entirely random? Is it influenced by the first tech you select as your research choice in the new age? Is it influenced by your opponents, game position, etc.? Anybody know with any degree of certainty?

I always seem to get Monotheism, Nationalism, and Rocketry, but in my latest game I was very pleased to receive Ecology upon entrance to the Modern Age. I think, but frankly don't trust my memory, that I've also gotten Feudalism once and Medicine once, both long ago. In that most most recent game, I selected Computers as my first Modern Age research project -- I tend to go for Fission first in most cases, to the extent that that bit of data matters. I did a forum search and found nothing. Thanks.

Catt

[jshelr]

You are getting Alzheimer's, I think, although I can't remember either.

Its mono, nationalism, rocketry every time. If you skip nationalism, as I normallly do, you don't lose ground to the scientific civs as you head toward ToE.

Taking the question more seriously, I can't come up with any way you could generate the result you report. Did you trade for rocketry on the same turn you finished the last industrial era tech or something clever like that?

BTW, if you do start with computers as you mentioned, and then quickly build research labs and seti, it seems to be possible to significantly reduce reserach time for the other SS techs.

[Catt]

Nope - no trading for Rocketry.

To the extent it matters, it was an Emperor game, small map, 1.29f unmodded rules, all random; I was playing Persia; my original opponents were Zulu, Babylonians, Romans, Egyptians, and Aztecs. I got lucky and played a pretty dominant game -- at the time I entered the Modern Age, I think my closest competitor was researching Combustion (but hadn't done any of the lower techs like Medicine, Scientific Method, Atomic Theory, etc.). I was so far ahead that the UN didn't hold any danger for me so I was free to choose something other than Fission (which I usually go after just to get the UN as a defensive measure).

And, while I may have the beginning stages of Alzheimer's , I also think I remember getting Ecology for free long ago, but never Computers or Fission (but again don't trust my memory). I don't ever remember getting Engineering or Steam Power for free.

Catt

[Kloreep]

I usually get Monotheism in the Middle Age, though I've heard of getting Feudalism, and I think I got Engineering once or twice. I usually get Nationalism, but have occasionally gotten Steam Power! I think I've gotten every tech in the Modern Age at least once, though Computers and Rocketry seem to be dominant.

[lateralis]

I may be wrong, but I think it may be tied to what other scientific civs are in the game. For instance, I was recently playing as russia and my closest rival was germany. at one age (Sorry, i dont remember which) We hit the new age within 1 or 2 turns of each other (everyone else was behind) and I got a different tech than he got. i know this because as soon as I got that tech I called bismark up on the secure phone and traded the tech I just got for the one he just got. I think it was montheism for fuedalism but it might have been medicine for nationalism or comupters for rockety. I don't really remember. sorry. anyhow, I think that may have somthing to do with it.

lateralis

[Sheik]

It would be nice if they let you select which tech you want. I always get mono., nationalism, and rocketry also.

If you skip nationalism, as I normallly do

Not to get off topic but how does skipping nationalism work out for you? I just about never skip it myself. Though I never make it a great priority.

[Theseus]

Didn't this change at one point? It used to be the cheapest, and now it's what?

(or am I thinking of the TOE?)

[Catt]

Originally posted by Theseus
Didn't this change at one point? It used to be the cheapest, and now it's what?

(or am I thinking of the TOE?)

You're thinking ToE which gave the two cheapest (and now gives the current research project and a tech of your choice).

And Nationalism has gotten godawful expensive under 1.29f (trade value, not editor research value). Damn near impossible to trade for it if the game is close (even with a bunch of scientific civs in the game getting it for free).

Sheik - I didn't start skipping Nationalism until a few months ago, now I routinely do it. I'd rather get my rail lines laid and/or my factories up and running, and then, if I am nervous with my defenisve posture, I can get Replaceable Parts on the way to Scientific Method. Has rarely proven to be a problem, although in a very recent game (AU 107) I was forced to go after Nationalism instead of Steam Power due to an invasion by a superior foe -- I needed rifles and I thought that I might need mobilization and the draft. Unless something similar happens in future games, I will merrily go on about my business skipping right past Nationalism.

Catt

[SanPellegrino]

I never got anything else than mono, nationalism and rocketry.

On some thread a few days ago I read about "rocketry, the advance for the scientific civs", but I don't know if the writer knew it or we are just quoting each other in a circle here

[alva]

IIRC , you always get the top tech, don't know why, that's just the way it is.....somethings will never......

[Jethro83]

The usual techs you get free are Monotheism, Nationalism and Rocketry. No dispute with that.

However, I have found that as I enter the middle ages, and choose Monotheism to research, I'll get Feudalism or Engineering (more likely feudalism) instead. Once in the Industrial age, I selected Nationalism and got Medicine as my free tech. Once in the modern era, I chose Rocketry and got Fission for free.

In short, my personal experience dictates that I always get Monotheism, Nationalism and Rocketry, unless I pick those techs as the first ones to research at the start of each era. Thus, it is possible to assert a limited control as to the techs attained free by striking out the ones that are free by default.

[Sheik]

Is the way you do it LordAzreal better? In other words are the techs you get by researching the "free" tech first better then the "free" tech itself? I guess it would depend on what your style is but what do you think?

[Jethro83]

It would depend on a number of things. However, I would always prefer Feudalism to Monotheism, so I can get Pikemen right away and make a quick start on Sun Tzu's AoW.

As for Medicine instead of Nationalism, I am indifferent. I would rather have gained Steam Power as my free tech, but still, Medicine is the critical tech attainable as a free scientific tech, and leads to Scientific Method, so I guess that's the better one to kick off the Industrial age than Nationalism, whose dead end lies with Communism and Espionage (all of which are non-critical and cheaply bought).

As for Fission instead of Rocketry, it hardly matters, unless I am aiming for a diplomatic victory and want to make an early start on the U.N. But without diplomatic victory, I'll most likely want to build nuclear plants, and so I'll want Fission first instead of Rocketry.

Another thing to factor in is that if there are other scientific civs near you who are right about dead even in terms of tech and start each age about the same time as you do, you can get a tech that means an extra tech you can trade right away (unless the tech is a prerequisite for a wonder and you don't want to give them a chance at catching up on a wonder).

And in the case of the Industrial age, getting a critical tech instead of the non-critical tech the others will get will get you a head start towards Motorized Transportation.

[Catt]

I reloaded a saved game from just before I entered into the Modern Ages and replayed the turn four times, selecting the four possible tech choices each time. In all cases I received Ecology as the free tech -- even when I chose to research Ecology, I immediately got it for free and was prompted to choose another research path.

I play with random seed preserved so I was obviously playing with the same seed and I didn't do crazy things in order to try and change the seed. I still have no idea how and why a given tech is chosen, but (again subject to my aged memory ) I can count on one hand the number of times I've received anything other than Monotheism, Nationalism, or Rocketry. So why Ecology?



Catt

[vmxa1]

IIRC it gives me what I am research and then the lowest one that I could research. That is often Espionage, as I likely have skipped it. I do not play SCI civs much, but I have used Germany some.