I smell a rat...

[hinder90]

Hi all,

There have been many descriptions of scenarios posted here that imply the AI "cheats" by knowing things that it shouldn't. While it seems that kind of talk is usually received with insistance that the computer plays fair, I have another situation that should fuel this debate. Lord knows we like conflict, otherwise we'd be playing the Britney Spears game, right? Okay then...

It seems to me that the computer doesn't engage me unless it is sure it will win the fight. I did a little "cheating" of my own by replaying a turn by saving it and making slight changes each time I try. The Babylonians are massing to attack a city of mine with a plethora of longbowman against a few of my infantry. I found that with only a two infantry garrison, the city was taken, so I tried adding a few more infantry to the city to beef it up a bit and found, to my surprise, that after adding a unit or two, the computer didn't attack! I retried this several times to confirm it wasn't simply a fluke, but it remained consistant- if the battle wasn't going to be won by the AI, it didn't engage. I first suspected that this civ was spying on my city (unlikely success considerring we're at war) but I then checked out a game save from a previous turn and saw that the Babylonians have no money, and considerring that they are losing a war with practically every other civilization on the planet, I don't see how this would have changed in 3 turns to afford such a venture in spying.

So what gives? Does the AI cheat, or is there some other "logical" explaination?

[Theseus]

This is one of the few known AI advantages... it knows where all of your units are. The assessment is not whether it will "win" or not (binary), but what the odds of winning are (stats).

Next.

[zeh]

Re: I smell a rat...

Originally posted by hinder90
The Babylonians are massing to attack a city of mine with a plethora of longbowman against a few of my infantry. I found that with only a two infantry garrison, the city was taken, so I tried adding a few more infantry to the city to beef it up a bit and found, to my surprise, that after adding a unit or two, the computer didn't attack!

Well, you may call this "experimantation", but at some level this is a cheat, and a lot of other players, including myself, do this sometimes.
But I know what are you talking about, and this is the method a lot of games use for the AI model.
On strategy games you can see the most cases. Know the entire map, where units are, the power of the human and AI opponent and lot of other things we can't know normaly.
Beat a human player is not so easy like some people think.

[Sean]

Yes, the AI "cheats", in the sense that it gets some advantages. Such as the aforementioned knowledge of our unit placement. It also gets a large production bonus per level increase. They aso are "encouraged" to gang up on the human player.

[Arrian]

They aso are "encouraged" to gang up on the human player.

Not true. The AI is certainly programmed to dislike the most powerful civ, and the AI is also programmed to seek alliances when at war. Thus, if you are at war with an AI civ, that AI civ will actively be seeking allies against you. The best way to prevent a pile-on is to get some allies of your own. Beat the enemy to the punch.

On the opposite side of the power spectrum, the AI will happy pound on weak civs. Thus, you will often see one AI civ get jumped by 4 or 5 others, and wiped out quickly. I've seen that happen a LOT, but I suppose it makes a bigger impression if it's your civ that gets jumped.

Hinder90 - as Theseus said, the AI does know where your units are, just as it knows where the barbarian encampments are (if you see AI warriors and/or archers moving purposefully in one direction, you can be pretty sure there is a barb camp thattaway).

By the way, the issue of "AI cheating" has been discussed ad nauseum on these forums. Do a search with "AI" and "Cheat" and you will probably get 100 threads. Very little in those threads is accurate.

-Arrian

[vmxa1]

Perfect timing for my current game, the notion that the AI attacks only when it knows it will win.
The game is basically over, it is 2044 and Persia launched a sneak attack on me, why? This is EMP on std map, no mods. My score is 3 times the next civ (france) and it is dead and gone. The next place is Greece and it has 1 city. Persia has grown and has 72 MI, 24 MA and some other units. It attacked me (it got one city) and I have 20 calv, 35 MI, 93 MA and 5 armies. Not to menion a few nukes. So I would say the AI does not always attack when it is sure it will win, it won't even survive the counter attack. Most of those units are out in the front of my cities and have taken damage.

[IthacaMike]

Originally posted by Theseus
This is one of the few known AI advantages... it knows where all of your units are. The assessment is not whether it will "win" or not (binary), but what the odds of winning are (stats).

Next.

There are some exploits based on the ability of the AI to see what the human can't.

1) Defending against seaborne invasion with empty cities. When you see the AI's Armada sailing along your coast, pull all the defeneders out of a distant city. The AI will see the empty city and head for it. When the Armada gets close put the defenders back in. Select another city that is now distant from the Armada and pull its defenders. Again the AI will see an undefended city and head for it. I guess it is better to journey hopefully than to arrive.

2) Running the gauntlet. When the AI's massive stack of attackers shows up, pull the defenders out of a city that it will take the AI several turns to reach. Bombard the AI's attack stack as it lurches forward. Be sure to have several defenders with your artillery. When the stack gets close to the undefended city put the defenders back in and pull them out of another city. Eventually the AI will start to retreat (and pillage as it goes).

3) Find the Strategic resource. When wining a war against the AI you will want to locate stategic targets. Examine all of its cities and identify the size 1 cities that have not expanded culturally. Contact the AI and ask for a peace treaty with the AI giving up one of these cities. The AI will not give up any such city if it controls a strategic resource even if the AI ought not be able to see that resource. If the AI will not give up one city but will give up another you have located an invisible Strategic Resource and identified a high priority target.

When life hands you lemons, make lemonade and sell it.

Mike G

[vondrack]

Originally posted by IthacaMike
When life hands you lemons, make lemonade and sell it.

[Jaybe]

The AI has particular advantages over the human. OTOH, the human can think, which (still) devastates all the AI advantages.

[moneymogul]

I don't think that the AI attacks the weakest civs. In my game, Russia was one city big with only a warrior and a settler the entire game and it was still there. No one has ever declared war on it, even though most civs(including me and my allies) had twenty or more cities with knights and tanks.

[vmxa1]

I can not figure out what the AI does sometimes. In my last game the Greeks were down to 1 city and at war with Persia, who did eliminate France, but made peace with the Greek. The Greeks were the only civ I let survive as the Persians attacked (I was much bigger than they had decided to play the end wihout war as I was ready to quit. So the AI killed of one, but not the other?

[HazieDaVampire]

I'd like to know if the AI knows if it going to win or not! I can send 10 cavalry into a city and only kill 2 or 3 infantry! Yet the AI can send in 10 and kill at least 5 or 6!

[spy14]

Originally posted by HazieDaVampire
I'd like to know if the AI knows if it going to win or not! I can send 10 cavalry into a city and only kill 2 or 3 infantry! Yet the AI can send in 10 and kill at least 5 or 6!

Its because the computer fixes the results to gain its victory (damn im gonna get so much abuse for that one ). As for the aforementioned small Civs, the AI will happily gang up on a small civ and reduce it to one city so it dosnt pose any future threat, and so the AI grabs itself more turf. The AI dosnt like to wipe out 1 city civs tho because of the reputation damage (i've tried it myself, attitude towards you changes from polite to furious in some cases).

[vmxa1]

That makes some sense, but in my game it was conquest only and only 3 civs left, why hold back on one, but not the other? I don't know, I can see a few possible reasons, but I suspect a lack of comprehensive coding. IOW the situation was not properly taking into account.

[Level]

The AI does not know if it will win but it does know the odds.

The AI can see all units "cheat" is to replace the humans advatage of memory, which the AI does not have.