Militaristic, Industrious, Religious are so far ahead of the other traits

[Alinestra Covelia]

Militaristic is poor, in my opinion. Many of the other traits give you something that is impossible to replicate any other way. Militaristic just gives you cheap improvements (often redundant, given the Militaristic wonders you can build) and vaguely speeded up unit improvement (which other civs could get anyway through fighting that little bit more often than you).

[The Puny Celt]

I used to think Expansionist was the weakest, but in my last game (Americans) I got a settler from a goodie hut in 3950BC and had my second city established in 3900BC! And never looked back from that early lead.

Also in a thread from a couple of months - "A reconsideration of Expansionist trait" or something like that - one of the posters, Monkspider, wrote about the benefits of expansionist trait in city placement. I found that too in my last game; it enabled me to grab lots of luxury resources all around my continent and then build inwards, and it worked a treat.

My only complaint about Expansionist now is that whereas all the other traits continue to give benefits throughout the game, the Expansionist trait gives pretty much all its benefits in the early game and then becomes redundant.

[Jaybe]

To appreciate all the civ characteristics, I have gone over to Random Civ at the beginning of the game. Great for having different styles of games, as well as being shocked when an improvement is cheaper/more expensive than I have gotten used to!

[WarpStorm]

Originally posted by The Puny Celt
My only complaint about Expansionist now is that whereas all the other traits continue to give benefits throughout the game, the Expansionist trait gives pretty much all its benefits in the early game and then becomes redundant.

This is true, but the head start you got continues throughout the whole game. In your own example, you said you never looked back.

[player1]

I don't know.

In several games Expansionist was usefull for me, but in seveal other games it was comnpletly USELESS to me too.

The real probelem with it is that in times it is uesfull, it realy not soo much special.

So risk doesn't pay off in long run:
-you can get a good result (but not too good)
-or you can get wasted trait

I't like playing some gamble game in which you invest in 100$, and there is 50% chance to get 150$ in return or loose all.

Statistickly speaking you are losing.

[WarpStorm]

My experience with it is more like you gamble $100 and there is a 50% chance to get $200 in return, 35% chance to get $500 in return and a 15% chance to lose the whole pile.

In the long run, in my experience, I find that it pays off well.

It is now my second favorite trait. Industrious has a slight edge, because it is always good in all situations.

Industrious-Expansionistic rocks hard on nearly every map (yes, if you got stuck on a tundra island that can only support 3 cities tops and no goody huts in the sea with no other land in sight, it'd suck, but so would anything).

[WarpStorm]

It's a shame that the Americans (Industrious-Expansionistic civ) have the worst UU.

[Zachriel]

On large maps with plenty of huts, the Expansionist trait has obvious benefits. But even on smaller maps, Expansionist aids the early rush. Knowing where the nearest rival capital is can allow you to cripple at least one rival before the middle of the Ancient Age.

Rushing will dominate the early game in multi-player. Against a strong opponent, if you see his Scout, you better prepare your defense. Here is a game where the early rush was made possible by the Expansionist trait; and where without the trait, the game was untenable.

http://www.zachriel.com/gotm5/

[Lucarse]

Nice new Avatar warp storm! how can i tell how close i am to 500 posts i want one too whaaaaa!!!

[WarpStorm]

63, it in your profile

[asleepathewheel]

Maybe this is mean for me to say, but it seems to me that people who say that Expansionist is useless have no idea how to use it effectively. (note: this is not directed at people who don't like to use it, as everyone has their own preferences)

Expansionist is very effective in the hands of someone who knows how to use it. I would argue that this trait rewards the better players. It requires thought and strategic planning to use well and to its advantage. I view the other traits as fairly brainless. They give great benefits, cheaper buildings or what have you, but they are background effects. Religious actually takes some of the thought out of the game, as you no longer have to worry about a poorly timed revolution.

Expansionist you have to use effectively from year 1. If you sit on it, it will be worthless but if you can use it effectively it can turn into an overwhelming advantage. All ancient techs for free. I probably get at least 500-1000 gold early in the game (coupled with a 0 tech rate makes for a huge bank) Reconnaisance. Communications. and army of conscript warriors roaming around (can pick off a lonesome settler here and there early on).

Early control of the game.

For example: in my latest game, I sent off my scouts. They found several luxuries nearby (3 types, one of which was a cluster of 5) . I planted cities there when I had the chance, parking a conscript warrior (that I got for free) on each to guard. I then found other luxuries so that by 1 ad, I had ALL luxuries. Granted, I only had 1 or 2 of most. This meant that my cities were obscenely happy nearly the whole game. Coupled with techs at least 3 ahead of the nearest and a bank of probably 1500 at the start of the middle ages was just a huge lead.

Granted, that was on Monarch

On upper levels, the free techs are much more important as I can't get the ai to trade me anything, even if I have knights and they have tanks.


I'll stop now

[Zero]

hey guys everyones been talking of new improved commercial trait in 1.29..... but wat was exactly changed? please be more specific?

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by Calc II
hey guys everyones been talking of new improved commercial trait in 1.29..... but wat was exactly changed? please be more specific?

I'll give a try, though I may be off here

Increased optimal cities. was 12.5% more, now 25%

anything else? am i incorrect, just did a quick scan of the issue.

[vmxa1]

The early settler from a hut can come to any trait, I had only my second one ever on my current EMP game on std map, first hut I entered. This very powerful, if anyone can show that Expansion trait leads to more of them, then I will agree it is powerful. Otherwise, I don't really see it. It seems plain enought that you will get more elites and hence more leaders as a Mil civ and that is all game long and is very powerful. A key leader at a pivitol point in the game can be a major factor. At Monarch and above it may be your best chance to get some of the wonders in the first two ages. Especially above Monarch. It is no fun seeing the wonders build by the AI, one after another.

[Arrian]

asleepatthewheel,

You're right about the increase in the OCN bonus, but I believe commercial civs were also given an additional +1/+2 commerce per city/metropolis.

As to the topic, well, those are my favorite traits, but I think Artifex overstates his point.

-Arrian