Suggestion For Making Marines More Useful

[Wormwood]

Originally posted by cgannon64


Will Firaxis make changes to ADM in PTW? I hope so, because several areas need changes.

ADM is nothing you can't change in the editor.

[cgannon64]

You're right, Wormwood, but for lazy people like me? I'd like them to change it!

[Thrawn05]

Originally posted by cgannon64
You're right, Wormwood, but for lazy people like me? I'd like them to change it!

For a second I thought you were one of those Cannon purist players.

It's not that hard to edit.

[Martinus Magnificus]

I gave the marine an attack of 10 and defense of 8. Additionally, I gave the paratrooper a range of 8 (like I did with all modern air units) and an A/D of 8/10. This way, both units become usefull. I actually used many marines in my last game (huge earth map), since there were many 1 tile islands that had to be taken by marines.

[Thrawn05]

Originally posted by Martinus Magnificus
I gave the marine an attack of 10 and defense of 8. Additionally, I gave the paratrooper a range of 8 (like I did with all modern air units) and an A/D of 8/10. This way, both units become usefull. I actually used many marines in my last game (huge earth map), since there were many 1 tile islands that had to be taken by marines.

This could be labeled as a bug, but I found a way to stay in the game even if you're reduced to just one city.

I play Giga Arch maps with 80% water. I try to search for a small island. Sometimes, there are 1 tile islands, plant a city there. Now no matter what, the AI can't take it by force. Since no unit can amphib a city directly (unless this is a bug in my civ3 install).

[Wormwood]

Originally posted by Thrawn05


This could be labeled as a bug, but I found a way to stay in the game even if you're reduced to just one city.

I play Giga Arch maps with 80% water. I try to search for a small island. Sometimes, there are 1 tile islands, plant a city there. Now no matter what, the AI can't take it by force. Since no unit can amphib a city directly (unless this is a bug in my civ3 install).

I use those as ports for my fleet, and invasion platforms, since they are more or less impervious to attack. Now, people have stated that 1 tile islands are only possible in manually created maps, not in the randomly generated ones. How do you get 1 tile islands in those? Unless of course you create them yourself.

[Catt]

Originally posted by Thrawn05

Now no matter what, the AI can't take it by force. Since no unit can amphib a city directly (unless this is a bug in my civ3 install).

I think this is a bug in your install (or the AI simply refuses to attack your sole city for some reason). I attack cities directly with marines (it's all I use them for), and, after months of never seeing an AI amphib assault on a city but seeing reports of it from others, have witnessed several AI assaults directly on my coastal cities using marines under 1.29f.

Catt

[Gen.Dragolen]

Wormwood,

Marines have their uses: I send them to attack cities in the enemy rear areas where they are not as well defended.

Only problem is that they don't hold out very well with out an infantry unit or two and artillery support. Lost many a Marine to cavalry counter-attack after sacking a city. It seemsto me they should have a defensive strength of at least 8. After all, Infantry has a 10 defensive strength on the basis of machine guns and small mortars. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the USMC and Soviet Navy's Marines use those too right ?

And yes, in PTW, it's going to be wild, even with Radar installations watching the coastlines, as we try to sneak invasion fleets to a percieved weak point on a buddy's coastline.

D.

[cgannon64]

Yes yes, radar is going to change some things. I wonder what defensive bonuses it will give? I can just picture an infantry foritified on a mountain with a fort and a radar nearby. The AI would lose its entire army trying to dislodge it!

Now I see where I was wrong. I don't play as many archipelago games as you guys do, so I don't see too many 1 tile islands.

Thrawn---I am a mix of purist and lazy. Certain things I WILL not change, but some I would be VERY willing to change.

[The Pioneer]

Originally posted by Thrawn05


No, the MI has the speed, cost, attack, defense, resources etc... as MA. It's just that SOME CIVS use MIs, and the rest MAs. THey are both the same unit in every way expect in Name and Animation.

What part of this don't you understand?

I do now!

So long...

[Wormwood]

Originally posted by Gen.Dragolen
Wormwood,

Marines have their uses: I send them to attack cities in the enemy rear areas where they are not as well defended.

Only problem is that they don't hold out very well with out an infantry unit or two and artillery support. Lost many a Marine to cavalry counter-attack after sacking a city. It seemsto me they should have a defensive strength of at least 8. After all, Infantry has a 10 defensive strength on the basis of machine guns and small mortars. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the USMC and Soviet Navy's Marines use those too right ?

And yes, in PTW, it's going to be wild, even with Radar installations watching the coastlines, as we try to sneak invasion fleets to a percieved weak point on a buddy's coastline.

D.

Hey, you're preaching to the converted here Marines are an important part of my modern military. In my mod, they are beefed up, and have the all-terrain as roads ability, and do not require oil, so they become a very viable unit in combat against undeveloped civs, and for flanking manuevers against enemny coastal cities. In my mod, tanks, MA, and MI are wheeled, so Marines become the unit of choice when an assault through rough terrain is required.

[cgannon64]

I'm thinking of modding my game so tanks, MAs, and MIs are wheeled. Just never got around to it, and I wonder how will it affect warfare.

[Wormwood]

Originally posted by cgannon64
I'm thinking of modding my game so tanks, MAs, and MIs are wheeled. Just never got around to it, and I wonder how will it affect warfare.

Well, wheeled units cannot travel though mountains or jungles unless there is a road there. What this means is that you can leave sections of your own territory like that unroaded, to create defensive, or to at least know that these are areas where tanks will not be able to pass through, allowing you to concentrate on defense elsewhere. In my mod I have this, and I have beefed up marines with the all terrain as roads ability, so there are instances where sending in tanks will be ineffective, jsut as in reality.

[cgannon64]

Very very very interesting defensive idea. So, you purposely leave jungles/hills/mountains unroaded, so the AI has to invade through certain zones? I would set up artillery and defensive units to turn these zones into "kill" zones.

This will make using this mod very interesting in MP, b/c either marines will become much more useful, or we can get the AIs point of view when walking into kill zones.

[vondrack]

Well, I have just had a very radical idea cross my mind... What about preventing all/certain/some (modern?) units from landing unless they land into a tile already occupied by a friendly unit (for at least one turn?)? Marines would then be useful for exactly the purpose they serve in the real world - establishing a beachhead.

I realize there would be several problems... and that it is not implementable in the current game context... well, just an idea...