Major End game inbalance.

[markusf]

One of the biggest imbalances i have found is civ2 is that if one civ builds up a huge empire of several size 20 + cities fully built up and someone else having 10 size 5-10 cities with 1 or 2 improvements can go along and send caravans to the civ with the big cities while they are at war and get 2500 gold per caravan and a half a tech a science.

I think this is totally unrealisitc. how can a civ with a max gold surplus of 200/turn make 2000 gold per caravan & get 1/2 science for every caravan. Not to mention that all this gold is then used to rush & incrimentally buy 20 or so units... This is probably the most unrealistic part of the civ 2 gameplay i have come across, and makes the ICS strat the only real way to win the game. Because you ics sixty cities then rush caravans to your nieghbors big cities and then buy the spaceship in one turn....

[DarkCloud]

Trade should be ended when the civs are at war. There was a post
about the degrees of war a while back when this was proposed.
I will attempt to fish it out so everyone can read it...

[UltraSonix]

Cool , another excuse to pursue my favourite (almost) topic - Trade wars!

What I'v said here:

quote: In whatever way it's done, the Global trade model should facilitate a "trade war" option. An example model could involve trade bringing lucrative financial benefits, but then another civ temporarily stopping the trading would cause sever repercussions in your cities (as well as the other civ's). Cities would perhaps even loose extra money for a few turns (not just the beneficial amount the trade route brings). Trade wars should be able to be initiated reguardless of diplomatic status, since it would also cause the instigator damage. But of course the other civ would get rather annoyed by it.

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No, in Australia we don't live with kangaroos and koalas in our backyards...

[Ribannah]

quote: Originally posted by markusf on 09-05-2000 02:46 AM I think this is totally unrealisitc. how can a civ with a max gold surplus of 200/turn make 2000 gold per caravan & get 1/2 science for every caravan. Not to mention that all this gold is then used to rush & incrimentally buy 20 or so units... This is probably the most unrealistic part of the civ 2 gameplay i have come across, ....

OPEC countries do it all the time!
And other commodities than oil have been/are being used in the same way - gold, uranium, diamonds, coal, coffee, tobacco, sugar, fruit, even wood and cloth.

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If you have no feet, don't walk on fire

[Ribannah]

You can always block access to your cities by posting diplomats and (food) caravans in the way. Foreign diplomats can be sent back. Or even better: make a deal with the player who wants to set up a profitable trade route.

Again, this is very realistic, it happens all the time in the real world (French truckers are blockading international trade as we speak).

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If you have no feet, don't walk on fire

[Shadowstrike]

Hmm... small nations should have a way of catching up though even in the lategame... that was lacking from every Civ game so far.

[Crustacian]

There are lots of ways to throw a big curve into the game. Even having other players "gift" money at a critical time such as when a dominant neighbor is in a revolution changing govts so a huge amount of cities can be bribed, and even other players "gifting" large amounts of gold or whatever to help someone hold out against an agresser to keep them from becoming too dominant.
Things like this can change the outcome of a game from where it was headed. At least with the caravan strategy it is done without direct outside help. I say this but still agree with Markusf that these type of huge curves in the game are unrealistic, even if only from an historical point of view.

To me it is also frusterating to have someone benifit so much from my growth in this way, as well as to lead in science only to have whatever you gain stolen by a civ who has no other science program at all. All are great causes to go to all out war with over.

But then it is a nice feeling when I am behind that some strategic secrets can be revealed thru stealing!!

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The journey itself is the thing~Odysseus

[UltraSonix]

quote: You can always block access to your cities by posting diplomats and (food) caravans in the way. Foreign diplomats can be sent back. Or even better: make a deal with the player who wants to set up a profitable trade route. Again, this is very realistic, it happens all the time in the real world (French truckers are blockading international trade as we speak).

I think that diplomats, spies, sea trade, etc should all be removed as units from the game, and replaced with screens, like I've been saying for yonks.
BUT, in reference to modelling the blockade in France of the oil refineries, I think this sort of thing should be available in the game, but it would done as a part of the trading screen, not with the clumsy way of having to move trucks to enemy towns.

Some of the options that should be available in the tradign screen are:

*Level Tariffs
- Start Trade War (Ultra-High tarriffs).
- Income source (moderate tariffs)
- Help local trade (low tariffs)

*Begin/Resume Trading (give $ to both sides)
- Trade allies (high level of trading)
- Trade patners (moderate level of trading)
- Informal Trading (low level of trading)

*Cease/lower trading
- Permanent stop
- Temporary ban
- Target specific goods (lowers trading)

(I have the feeling I'll be referencing this model some time in the future.)

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No, in Australia we don't live with kangaroos and koalas in our backyards...