Still Stinks Out Loud

[Brutus66]

Well, I came back to give Civ3 another try, months after the last time I stopped playing after getting aggravated. I figured with a new patch, well, who knows.
Well, after one game, I am back to being aggravated again by so many things.
I was playing on Warlord- not a very tough skill level; I wasn't looking to get spanked.
My Civ was definitely one of the lesser developed ones, so there was nothing for the other nations to be envious of. And I behaved pretty well on the diplomatic front too- I stuck to my agreements and never betrayed anybody. But it wasn't even halfway through the game when everybody's attitude towards me was "furious", and that's pretty much where they stayed.
WHY??? Some of these countries I rarely even had contact with.
I remember the other nations getting mad in Civ2 if you started getting too far ahead of everybody, but that was definitely not the case here.
Here, if I bribed somebody, it might elevate their mood to merely "annoyed" for a while, but eventually I was back to being back in the doghouse.
My neighbors, Rome and Babylon, seemed to have no problems attacking me on a whim and then going on to form all kinds of deals and alliances later on. None of the other leaders seemed to mind when it was I getting the pipe.
There were some big conflicts- Babylon became huge and most of the other countries were frequently allied against them for self-preservation. The thing that really, really irked me was that my country and several others would be fighting the Babylonians simultaneously, and I would ask each of the other warring countries if they would like to form an alliance against Babylon. And each time the answer would be No. WHY??? they were ALREADY at war with the Babylonians!!!
And another thing that ticks me off is the ridiculous trading practices of the AI nations- just try to get a square deal ANYWHERE! Think you can trade ANYBODY one luxury item for another without having to throw in a map and some gold to sweeten the deal???
I have had it. I am done! I am just so sick of games that make up for dumb AI by letting it cheat like crazy.
Oh, and another thing. The war weariness business sucks big time. I have a democracy or republic and just start making headway against Hammarubi or whatever his name was, and voila- riots and revolts everywhere.
Hey Sid, I got some news for ya, it's not 1965 anymore, and every war isn't Viet Nam. Democracies don't automatically start rioting when the shooting starts. If they did, we wouldn't have made it against the damn Kaiser, much less Hitler.
And you can check your environmental messages at the door as well- boy am I sick of chasing pollution around the map!!!!
And last, why can I upgrade a spearman but not a swordsman unit? That makes no sense. Every warrior unit you make at the beginning of a game is going to eventually be good for nothing but the scrap pile, even if they distinguish themselves in battle and win their own unique name. You'll be able to upgrade 'em to swordsmen, but that's the end of the line.
Civ2 didn't infuriate me or puzzle me like this, and neither did either of the Call to Power games.
Oh well, at least they seemed to get the combat part pretty well fixed- didn't see any tank-killing spearmen this time out, and no nuclear subs got sank by frigates. Terrain seemed to give the appropriate modifiers- units in the hills did a good job whacking those in the plains.

[Tuberski]

Sorry you don't like the game. I'd suggest you not play anymore.

[DRoseDARs]

Pretty much all the things you've mentioned here have been bouncing around the forum since the dawn of this game; some of it is hardcoded and cannot be changed with a simple patch and other things can be modded.

Instead of giving up on the game, may I suggest looking around the forum and seeing what others have done to compensate for the short-falls of this game.

[Capt Dizle]

Brutus, you are right and actually, tubes is too. Scrap the mother.

[notyoueither]

Most of your complaints can be addressed by actively trading with the AI. I never have a problem making alliances and or seeing other civs smiling at me.

re Luxuries, they do job you. The higher your population is, the more they demand for the luxury you want. Kinda real world there.

The rest... oh, hell.

Buh bye!

[Theseus]

Brutus,

If I understand, you lost, and are pissed.

Stick around... we'll help you get your revenge.

[Lord Merciless]

Brutus, before you complain more about the game being too hard, try to read this thread first:
Winning early: What do YOU do?

then this one:
"Must Read" threads for newer players / posters

[Hagbart]

The game is so easy on Warlord level. The other civs don't tend to all be furious when I play.

Maybe you should just PRACTICE a little more.

[TacticalGrace]

The AI is just doing what human players always do. In what way is that cheating. They can see that you are weak. Why bother letting you join their alliance? If I were playing in their place I'd do the same.

And on th subject of trade, you should try getting a square deal from me. You won't unless I'm desperate.

On the subject of riots, have you tried turning city governers on to control attitude? Have you set the luxuries rate to more than 0% ? This is what I do and I get on fine. How long have your wars been? If you are in a democracy and the war goes on for 100 or 200 years then people get pretty fed up with it. You comparison with WWII is therefore not a fair one: It only lasted 6 years. For the US it only lasted 4 years!

If you build up a good military and station them on your borders then
(1) You will be able to finish wars very quickly (in just a few turns) and war weariness won't be a problem
(2) everyone will be much more polite to you 'cos they fear you.

you can get further with a kind word and a gun than you can with just a kind word.

On pollution: build a few more workers. Automate them by pressing shift-p and forget about the pollution.

[zulu9812]

*yawn* another one

[Ethelred]

Re: Still Stinks Out Loud

Originally posted by Brutus66
My Civ was definitely one of the lesser developed ones, so there was nothing for the other nations to be envious of. And I behaved pretty well on the diplomatic front too- I stuck to my agreements and never betrayed anybody. But it wasn't even halfway through the game when everybody's attitude towards me was "furious", and that's pretty much where they stayed.
WHY??? Some of these countries I rarely even had contact with.

Face it. They don't like wimps.

Actually furious is more like an indication that they would like to attack you. It can mean that they think you are an easy mark. You obviously were.

Here, if I bribed somebody, it might elevate their mood to merely "annoyed" for a while, but eventually I was back to being back in the doghouse.

You need to do a lot more than bribe them. They like alliances best of all. Bribes are small time stuff.

My neighbors, Rome and Babylon, seemed to have no problems attacking me on a whim and then going on to form all kinds of deals and alliances later on. None of the other leaders seemed to mind when it was I getting the pipe.

Why should they mind it? One less opponent. Of course the game ends when you lose but the AI is playing to win anyway.

And each time the answer would be No. WHY??? they were ALREADY at war with the Babylonians!!!

They don't trust you maybe. Maybe they want a bribe. Remember that if they allie with you against another nation they can't end the war on their own without harmeing their repution for twenty turns. I have learned not to end a war till the alliances time out and I can end them first.

And another thing that ticks me off is the ridiculous trading practices of the AI nations- just try to get a square deal ANYWHERE! Think you can trade ANYBODY one luxury item for another without having to throw in a map and some gold to sweeten the deal???

Well part of it is the AI wants to get all the luxuries and when I have a monopoly on four of them the AI wants ALL my luxuries for the ones they have PLUS they want money if I am larger than they are. Luxuries mean a lot more to me than they do them in my present game. I have 52 cities on a standard map and I think the next most is less than twenty. I need the luxuries they don't. Its a sellers market. Till I finish off Englan anyway. Got one of the two luxuries I was getting form Liz when that over made up witch declare war on me. Stupid of her.

I have had it. I am done! I am just so sick of games that make up for dumb AI by letting it cheat like crazy.

The AI has almost no cheats. In fact on Warlord its handicapped instead of you. The only known cheats involve the AI knowing things about the map without actually seeing the whole map. Handicaps don't count as cheating and in any case its the AI that was handicapped in that game.

Oh, and another thing. The war weariness business sucks big time. I have a democracy or republic and just start making headway against Hammarubi or whatever his name was, and voila- riots and revolts everywhere.

I recommend The Republic. I never go for Democracy anymore. That realy cuts down on WW. In fact in my present game I have been at war with Japan for an extremely long time. Japan was forced to drop out of Democracy and has been communist for centuries.

It really helps if you win the battles and don't lose any cities by conquest. Culture flipping doesn't effect WW from what I can tell. I haven't had ANY WW in this long war because Japan hasn't been able to do anything to me. I don't have a reason to attack Japan myself as I allready have severe corruption with 50 plus cities and didn't want to execute a sea invasion just for maybe one luxury. England has two AND I hate Liz anyway so she is my favorite target.

Oh this is on Monarch not Warlord and all those things you are complaining about are worse on Monarch if you don't know how to deal with them.

And you can check your environmental messages at the door as well- boy am I sick of chasing pollution around the map!!!!

Someone allready told you how to handle that. SHIFT-A does work extremely well.

And last, why can I upgrade a spearman but not a swordsman unit? That makes no sense.

I don't know. I think its because the Swordsmen is the last offensive foot unit. All further foot units are much stonger on defense than offense.

However you can mod the game if you find this too much of a problem. I just build Horsies myself and only a few swordsmen and even then only if I get Iron before I get horses. I even did that in my last game with the Persions against the Romans. I had iron and Rome didn't though so I didn't have to deal with the dreaded Legions. Otherwise I would have built Imortals and then wished that I hadn't later.

Every warrior unit you make at the beginning of a game is going to eventually be good for nothing but the scrap pile, even if they distinguish themselves in battle and win their own unique name. You'll be able to upgrade 'em to swordsmen, but that's the end of the line.

Well I did just get a Great Leader with and Elite Swordsmen when I had Infantrymen running around as well. I hit a cavalry unit to do that. Any non-elite obsolete units are often used to speed up improvements by disbanding them in cities that are still resisting. It realy helps get that temple built to expand a cities borders after I capture it.

Civ2 didn't infuriate me or puzzle me like this, and neither did either of the Call to Power games.

How did you deal with the idea of Lawyers as a Unit? I bought the game but refused to install it when I saw them.

I can see that you are puzzled. Check out those links that Lord Merciless posted. You really should be able to blow away the AI on Warlord with the ideas on those links.

Oh well, at least they seemed to get the combat part pretty well fixed- didn't see any tank-killing spearmen this time out, and no nuclear subs got sank by frigates.

There never were many tank killing spearmen. I have lost ONE tank to a spearman since the game came out and that was recent.

Terrain seemed to give the appropriate modifiers- units in the hills did a good job whacking those in the plains.

Thats how you get the tank killing speamen. In a large city on a mountain with a tank attacking across a river a spearman gets a big defensive modifier.

That and the Advanced Spearmen with the Depleted Uranium Anti-Tank Sabot Spear with the Triangular Cross Section. Sure do wish they weren't only available to the AI in the Industrial Age. I just never have any Spearman hanging around then myself. Elite Swordsmen maybe.

Really just try the stuff in those links. And I recommend standard map sizes myself as flogging hundreds of cities and a thousand tanks can be a great way to get bored to death.

[DrFell]

I personally have lots of spearmen around in the industrial age usually, I don't bother upgrading until the last minute. Not stupid enough to rely on them in combat though.

[Deathwalker]

If you don't like it don't play it

[Tiberius]

Brutus66, don't give up so easily.

Practice more, try find some strategy guides (here on apolyton, or on civfanatics.com) and ask for specific help on the forums; you can post saved games, maps, etc, people will help you.

Regarding your diplomatic problems:
- the stronger your empire is (militarily and culturally, too) the more your enemies will respect you. The deal will be sweeter if the other civilization has a lower cultural value than yours.
- Dont bribe them too often, it is a sign of weakness. Do it only when you are in big trouble and you need an ally for a war.
- trading a lot (don't worry being a tough negociator!) will increase your reputation.
- One more thing: it is easier to trade and sign agreements with opponents from the same cultural "block" (european, middle-east, etc)

Really, read some strategy guides.

[Q Classic]

i'm sure it's always the same person with a different handle...

i mean, aside from a few variations on the choice words, the comments/critiques are identical...