Cruise missile hitting Submarine??

[metalhead]

Playing yesterday, in my first modern war ever (now THIS is where the fun's at - oh yeah!) Anyways, I have a nuclear sub stationed a tile away from my enemy's coast (and a coastal city). It's basically patrolling for other subs. Well, it's just sitting there, when the AI launched a Cruise missile at it and IT SINKS! Now, I have 2 problems with this.

The first is, I didn't know cruise missiles were designed to sink a submarine? Is it physically possible to target a sub with a cruise missile? It's not like the thing surfaced - it was chilling underwater waiting for enemy subs!

Second, even if Cruise missiles are capable of sinking subs, how would it know my sub was there? I can't see enemy subs in my territory, and have had that mysterious invisible attacker inside my cultural borders before. How can the AI do this? Now granted, the loss of a sub when the AI would have saved itself a lot by hitting one of my battleships isn't a big deal, it seems strange that the AI can a) see my sub to target it, and b) target an underwater vessel in the first place.

[Demerzel]

unlikely as it might be, it might have bought the location of all your troops via its spy and then chosen to target the sub...

a lot of things are implausible in the game, one more isn't exactly a surprise - remember fun always beats reality in the game ( except for damn culture flips ). If you can do it ( and technically its a good idea as it removes a hidden unit with ease ) then the AI should too.

Maybe it was surfaced doing weather measurements or the crew was trying to remove their ghastly pale skin with some nice sunbathing?

[vondrack]

No comments on the possibility of a cruise missile sinking a sub... that's the eternal "reality vs. game" issue...

But I have a pretty simple solution to the other part of your post. The AI did not need to spy on your troop locations. All it needed was a sub in that coastal city. The AI would see your sub (thanks to its sub), but your sub would not see the AI sub, as it was anchored in the city. Could it be that?

[metalhead]

Originally posted by Demerzel
unlikely as it might be, it might have bought the location of all your troops via its spy and then chosen to target the sub...

I thought of that, but I have admittedly had little experience with espionage. This is the first game I've had the AI use it against me - I got pop-ups for attempted propoganda and disrupted production. Do you not get a pop-up when plans/maps/tech is stolen? I would think you would, but if not this is a possibility. Or maybe it is just the AI knowing where my troops are, although that has been denied several times over. Maybe they can just see subs in their cultural borders?

Or, maybe they did surface because it was time for shore leave and they were looking forward to tagging some of that nasty Persian booty

[WarpStorm]

You don't get a pop-up when someone successfully does espionage, only when they fail. Okay, sometimes when they succeed, but are caught.

[Jaybe]

I am glad Vondrack figured a way for your sub to be detected without Metalhead's knowing it, because I sure couldn't think of one. In this game, mysteries are okay with me. In fact, they are a great source of the fun.

Of course, there is no prohibition from using a cruise missile against a sub, and if I had been in the AI's position, I might well have used the cruise missile instead of risking damage or loss of an attacking submarine.

[metalhead]

Originally posted by vondrack
No comments on the possibility of a cruise missile sinking a sub... that's the eternal "reality vs. game" issue...

But I have a pretty simple solution to the other part of your post. The AI did not need to spy on your troop locations. All it needed was a sub in that coastal city. The AI would see your sub (thanks to its sub), but your sub would not see the AI sub, as it was anchored in the city. Could it be that?

I'm more worried about how the AI saw my sub than the fact that a Cruise missile can't realistically target a sub (although it's still a little troublesome ) I didn't think of them maybe having a sub in their city - having recently stolen their troop position, I'll have to look into it

EDIT: dumb grammar mistake

[YC4B4U]

Perhaps they are using the old ASROC system. Torpedoes being carried by cruise missiles isn't a new idea.

With respect to seeing the sub -> does aerial recon allow you to see a sub?

[Jaybe]

Originally posted by YC4B4U
...
With respect to seeing the sub -> does aerial recon allow you to see a sub?

No, only subs, nuc subs and AEGIS Cruisers can see subs.

The AI does not use (or need to use) recon missions.* OTOH, in PTW (multiplayer) would we see any evidence of a recon mission being performed by another player?? You cannot intercept recon missions.

* Based on the concept (not conclusively proven) that the AI knows where all units are, though they do not necessarily immediately react to such knowledge.

[Lucarse]

I have Had The AI use esponage against me in particular steal technology, i was playing at warlord level , miles(ish) up the tech tree.
(due to some savvy trading early on and beating the 4 opponents left back to the stone age)

Suddenly they are researching cure for cancer?? these guys have just got amphpibs!

I thought the AI was cut back under Prince level?

[ruskiyparen]

Did you have a battleship farther out from the coast? Maybe the AI was aiming for that but ran in to your sub? If AI ships move into a sub's space they will battle it out. Could happen with cruise missiles also, I suppose!

[Moonsinger]

Re: Cruise missile hitting Submarine??

Originally posted by metalhead
how would it know my sub was there? I can't see enemy subs in my territory...

I think you can! If you select 'bombardment' and move the target cursor around. If the target light up, you know that there is enemy sub/subs in that location. Even if you can't see it, you would still know it there becuase you can be able to target it. It's just a theory; I haven't checked that out yet.

[Wormwood]

I tried that with a sub that was giving some of my BB's hell. It doesn't seem to work.

[vmxa1]

We have had means of finding subs for a long time that do not require being in visual range. Tracking the USSR subs was/is a science. Although I do not see any implementation of it in the game. I would say shooting missile to hit subs, is not a profitable undertaking. I suppose it could be done with a big enough payload and the sub not being too far below the surface.

[Moonsinger]

Originally posted by vmxa1
I would say shooting missile to hit subs, is not a profitable undertaking.

What if the sub is carry a full load of nukes? In this case, I think it may be very profitable.