The Civilization feeling

[Stormdancer]

*sigh* I hate 'me too' messages. Hopefully I can add a little bit more than that to this thread.

In Civ1 I got a real feel of "I rule an empire!"
In Civ2 I got a feel of "I rule this game."

It's all the little details that add up to produce a truly immersive environment. From the city-founding animations to the throneroom improvements, Civ 1 did a better job, I think. It felt more personal.

Though I do think the city founding animations should be updated to reflect the era - sort of odd to see a horse & wagon settler team building a city in an era of spacecraft.

As Sirotnikov says... make it magical again!
Probably one of the hardest design criteria imaginable.

[TheLimey]

Game pace is a good point.

I think that you should avoid as much micromanagement as possible, but instead include situations where the player has to stop and consider the situation, if they want the best solution.

An example of this might be a Wonder paying for certain levels of improvements in cities, which goes obsolete. When the crutch disappears, the player needs to consider which of those improvements that were 'free' are really necessary and so on.

He might choose to reduce science or luxury spending, change government, or build gold producing TI's instead.

These choices are what should pace the new Civ rather than a forced 'slow' pace.
[This message has been edited by TheLimey (edited July 07, 2000).]

[Steve Clark]

quote: Originally posted by OrangeSfwr on 07-06-2000 09:14 PM I can't stand how Civ 2 has the BC times last the same amount as from 1900-1950. I just feel like I missed so much, and with extra time it will give a chance for the whole world to be colonized and change hands.

Then play scenarios specifically designed for the ancient period (or any other periods or events that you like). The main game has to be GENERIC to allow for all types of strategies and gameplays. Don't any of you know that there are new Civ2 scenarios coming out all the time and many of them address shortcomings in the main game that are spoken about here and elsewhere?

Just to rant some more , instead of coming here and whine, check out the dozens of sites that offer scenarios. Some are lousy but some are truly masterpieces. In playing some of the better ones, you will come away saying 'I didn't know you could that in Civ2!".

[OrangeSfwr]

Steve - I have played some of the biggest and best scenarios that Civ 2 innovators have built. But that doesn't change the game any. I want to be able to start a game on earth with a bunch of other tribes speckling the globe and have time to enjoy the conquering of other tribes, and eventually empires. I don't want to see 4000 years go buy in 12 minutes. In Civ 1 I realize the time scale was very similar, but it didn't go buy as fast. In Civ 2 there was a shortcut for EVERYTHING. Micromanagement helps to slow time a bit, but to much of it becomes annoying. Civ 3 needs the right mix of Micromanagement, full screen messages, and other event triggers to slow the game to a respectable speed.

I think StormDancer represented my feelings best when he said...

quote: In Civ1 I got a real feel of "I rule an empire!" In Civ2 I got a feel of "I rule this game."

That says it all

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[Az]

I don't know ... but maybe it's that :

remember the cities in CIV1 ? no , I mean on the map ? remember ? squares with the color of the CIV ? oh that's what I like about it! it looks poor and lousy but it gives you the feeling of a map . and I actually liked it more that those ... pagodas , european country homes , pyramids or clay houses or whatever .....

so I guess what I wanna say is bring the squares back ! .

?


P.S. I didn't just say that , did I ?

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Prepare to Land !

[OrangeSfwr]

Dalgetti - My jaw dropped when I read that. I wanted to say that but I swear I'd get hissed and booed out of Apolyton. Thanks for having the guts to say it I agree 100%. The square makes it feel more like a map. The skyline view kinda screws with the mind the more ya think about it. Thanks Dalgetti

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~~~I am who I am, who I am - but who am I?~~~
"Oh, they have the Internet on computers now!"
- Dealer of the POBS Poker Club - The next game starts at 12:00 AM (EST)
- Webmaster of Apolyton Picture Contest IV

[IntgrSpin]

No booing or hissing here. I like the map-type view also.

Maybe Civ3 could let you play either a graphical interface similar to test-of-time, or a strategic interface similar to Civ1.

On the strategic map, we could clutter it up with info like build cues, trade routes, and military units, next to the city display.

[CornMaster]

I agree with IntgrSpin there should be an option for a 2D and 3D graphical world. This could also be triggered by zooming out. But i'd prefer 2 seperate modes that you can change within the game. And no animated units. I just hate that. Sorry if I stepped on an toes.

[UltraSonix]

I'm sorry Orange, but noooo! The game's slow enough as it is! I want to feel the civ-feeling too, but to me, civ isn't living through 4000 years of history. It's building cities, wonders, and mostly importantly, conquering my enemies. To me, it doesn't matter that BC went down the drain in 12mins, just as long as I can build an army and go kick some Mongols! That's "The Civilization feeling" to me.

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[MidKnight Lament]

I'll also put my hand up for a 2D or 3D option. Someone recently cited the old Battle Chess example - the animations were cool to watch to begin with, but other times you just wanted the bare basics, and the top-down view was simpler, less cluttered, and much less time consuming.

Obviously I don't know the mechanics behind it all, but I can't imagine that adding a 2D map would take all that long to implement. There's design issues, sure, but I think it's worth it. Not only would it appease those who don't want to see the bells and whistles because they can be annoying or non-conducive to quick play, but it would also help keep the minimum requirements down as low as possible. It sounds like Firaxis are going to go all out to give us top-of-the-line graphics, and that's fine, but a simpler 2D option would make sure that those without a new PC can still enjoy the game the whole way through.

Chances are I personally wouldn't be playing in 2D mode most of the time, but you can bet I'd be switching to it once I got into the slow end-game.

Options are good.

- MKL

[Steve Clark]

Which is exactly the model that is common to most hex-based wargames (eg., from Talonsoft). IIRC, in most of those games, you have 4 views: 3D normal (zoomed in), 3D display (zoomed out), 2D normal and 2D display. Most grognards after a while, ended up playing exclusively on the 2D maps (clearer to see units) and only use 3D for line of site, terrain analysis, etc.

[OrangeSfwr]

UltraSonix - I guess everyone has their own idea of how to play the game. But to me the longer and more drawn out it is, the more important everything seems. It would also make the game realistic in that all land could be settled and cultivated by the time 2000 AD rolls around (assuming a world map) What do you think about the map view? City view or square with name?

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~~~I am who I am, who I am - but who am I?~~~
"Oh, they have the Internet on computers now!"
- Dealer of the POBS Poker Club - The next game starts at 12:00 AM (EST)
- Webmaster of Apolyton Picture Contest IV

[MidKnight Lament]

Steve - I'm all for hex too, but in lieu of that a 2D view would still be nice.

- MKL

[phunny pharmer]

I personally don't like hex, but I do play hex games.

I also support 2D view. 3D is complicated, and much harder to customize. I would prefer customizability over better graphics. I also don't want to see animations when there are battles. This is for several reasons. First, they get repetitive after a while. The option would be turned off after the tenth time. Second, I don't want to see Firaxis spending time on this when they could make the game better in other more pressing ways. Third, simple is better; when the system isn't broken, don't change it.

I also think large, drastic changes would make Civ3 lose the civ feeling. However, I won't define 'large, drastic changes' because there are other changes that I want to see!

[Par4]

I never played civ1

*teary eyed

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