The Great Library - why all the fuss?

[kimmygibler]

The GL becomes essential on deity level. I don't bother with it on monarch. But I find the best way to do well on deity is to pre-build with the pyramids and rush to get literature. Then turn off science and focus on military and grab a few cities. Then hopefully go back into science mode by the time you discover education from the GL. I agree with Merciless, Gl is a must a deity level.

(As far a culture flipping goes I remember someone from Firaxis saying that distance capital was a huge factor as well. If you really want a city to flip, move your capital to the closest possible city. This has worked for me a few times)

[Zarg]

on monarch or lower level GL is usually a waste of production. on emperor it has been a great help for me, but maybe not really necessary to win the game. on deity i didn't try, but i guess it's absolutely necessary to keep up with the ai, fo the great starting advantage he has.

ZARG

[Kampus majore]

Deity is really difficult. I have tried it lately for a lot of games, but in each game I got stuck. Because they expand faster than I can, they can make more units than I can, they also have more tech than I have and last but not least they also got more culture.....

I have tried several strategies, but in each strategy the Great Library was really necessary!

The best strategy is to build up a large army and take what should be yours!

But the zero research I have not tried yet. Maybe it is an option!

[Traelin]

I'm a huge warmongerer (usually I'm at war every year up to Demo), so I really like to dedicate my shields to military. I play Emperor and find I have minimal problems with keeping up in Tech, because I usually attack advanced civs, grab some of their cities, and sue for peace on the condition of receiving techs. In fact I never build a GW until Sistine is available.

[Kuciwalker]

I wish Leo's worked like it did in Civ2

[Dutch]

The evolution of Wonders

I hear you, skywalker. In fact, Wonders of the World have been gradually degraded from Civ I through Civ III.

SETI, for instance; in Civ I it added 50 pst to the research of your entire civilization; in Civ II it did the same, only now it was also possible to build research labs in every city and achieve the same effect, albeit in a more complicated way; in Civ III this wonder just adds 50 pst to the research in the city that builds it (cumulative with other bonuses, thank God, but ...)

As for Leo's Workshop - it didn't exist in Civ I, but in Civ II it was a huge advantage. In Civ III it's just saving you some money.

These changes are probably implemented due to game balance issues, and I'm not actually complaining all that much. But on the whole, wonders aren't all that wonderful any more. (And don't get me started on Michela... err, Sistine Chapel; that wonder has really lost some weight.)

[Traelin]

Yeah a lotta the Wonders got downgraded, but I'm not complaining because it was probably necessary for balance and what-not. Maybe I'm getting confused between Civ I and II (God, it's been awhile since I played either), but didn't Michaelangelo/Sistine get cancelled out by Communism? I could be wrong...

[Kampus majore]

Originally posted by skywalker
I wish Leo's worked like it did in Civ2

Yes, back then I allways rushed for it, now it just isn't that important anymore....

But I am also not complaining! Actually on deity I don't seem to be able to build Wonders at all. I usually start, but someone else gets there first and by that time all other wonders are already. So I end up with a lot of shields and having to put them in a granary.... So lately I don't start them anymore till I have the tech available for several Wonders.

[Sovereign]

Hmm..

I build the Great Library to deny the enemy tech's, but at Reagent and above I always lose the race for Great Library.

The hardest level I've ever tried is Reagent. I tried Monarch and Emperor, but I quit FAST, because of early riots. Its a real pain in the ass, when I have some nice production plans all set up, then WHAM! Riots.

I'm thinking of using the Editor to modify the rules a bit. Make it so that ALL difficulty levels have the same riot and corruption levels as Chieftain. Then that way, I can manage riots and still have a hard AI to contend with.


About the culture flipping thing. I build my cities outwards from my capital. I usually play on huge maps, and when I do invade enemys, I take over a few of their cities at first. Then build culture stuff.

But, get this. I capture, say, a 10 turn old city, then build a couple others near the 2nd enemy city that is, say, 20 turns old. In 10 turns or more, my 2, 3, 4, 5 new cities along with the enemy city have temples. In 100 turns, my cities next to enemy territory would have considerable culture, probably in the 100 - 1000 range.

Then the enemy city, still 10 turns older than the one I captured, after 100 turns, doesn't flip. Even under pressure from 3 other cities nearby with moderate culture.


The enemy city usually is size 12 or below. Never past 13, then again, I'm 2 ages ahead of the enemy, with me having hospitals and none for them.


I guess I'll never have that "mythical" culture flipping. It has never happened, both ways. My cities never flip over, nor the enemy flip over to me.


Besides, this Coracle dude seems like he HATES culture a lot. I might sell him a copy of my Civ 3 program, for a price.

[Dutch]

Traelin, in Civ II, cathedrals made four unhappy people content at first. With the invention of Communism this was reduced to three. So Michelangelo's Chapel, equaling one cathedral per city, would have a reduced effect, but it was not made obsolete. Seems like fewer wonders are made obsolete in Civ III ...

Can't remember how this worked in Civ I, though. Haven't played that game since 1996.