Why are people so quick to bandy around the term "cheat"?

[Demerzel]

It always amazes me that people can take a game so seriously that they'll accuse others of being lame or cheating for not playing it "fair". For instance, I saw someone accuse another of cheating because they restarted the game for having a bad starting position.

Surely, if individual A has bought the game then that individual has every right to do what they want with the game as long as no-one else if affected? For multi-player, a fair playing field must be maintained I agree but why does individual B feel (s/)he has the right to criticise another for playing/altering the game they want to ensure they have the most fun possible?

I've had this same discussion with people over other games, for instance Half-Life - peeps have had the audacity to accuse me of cheating for using the quick-save functionality to avoid playing through the entire level again when I die.

Just wanted to see if others agree or if not, why?

[Thrawn05]

I don't restart, but I don't care if other people reload games.

I only save in stragety games only because of the complexity and the fact it take time.

First person shooters like AvPGE, QII, and JK just for a quick example I never save. If I die I want to start from the start again.

[Stuie]

Read this:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=39003

[Demerzel]

bah 8mths ago? which normal person would remember something that long ago? plus attitudes change in that length of time surely?

[Moonsinger]

I agree with what you said. Since I don't like hollow victory, there are rules that I'm imposing upon myself that I don't expect others to follow. If people like to send a modern amour to run over the poor archer, so be it! It's not my place to judge. It's just a game; as long as they don't do that in real life, I have no objection.

Anyway, I think victory is so hollow when that happen; and the same would go for cheater too. Only them would know what they actually did with their games. It doesn't matter what people think about you, it's what you think about yourself that counts a lot more.

[Stuie]

Originally posted by Demerzel
bah 8mths ago? which normal person would remember something that long ago? plus attitudes change in that length of time surely?

Hey, who said I was normal?

[Adagio]

Who the h*** cares about when people are cheating as long as it doesn't affect anyone else? I couldn't care less... And is restarting because of bad starting position really called a cheat?

I have several times, been in an argument, about if there should be cheat codes in a (SP) game... I just can't see, why people are doing anything they can, to avoid a game to contain cheat codes, as long as those (cheat codes, or what-so-ever) only works in SP...

[Egyptian]

I used to restart all the time to get a better starting position. Lately, I stopped doing that. I am playing random civs and always keep my original staring location. It makes the game much more chalenging, thus much more fun.

If people want to restart, no big deal. The cheating that bothers me is the AI on Emporer and Diety. I have won on Emperor, but I hate the cheating. I once started a game on Emporer, and had just finished building my second warrior, when a small stack of 4 Roman spearmen and three warriors marches by looking for Barbarians. THe AI advantage just sucks at that level, so I basically play Monarch only.

[Moonsinger]

AI doesn't cheat! The AI was programmed (by humans) to behave certain ways and it does exactly just that.

[Thrawn05]

Originally posted by Moonsinger
AI doesn't cheat! The AI was programmed (by humans) to behave certain ways and it does exactly just that.

Perhaps you should take a programming class.

The AI cheats because it is written to cheat. For example, free units, less corruption etc.

Doing that is the easy way to making a hard AI. A REAL ( ) programmer makes the AI smarter.


Also, a REAL PROGRAMMER tends to display homicidal tendencies when asked the question "ARE YOU SURE?".

[Moonsinger]

Originally posted by Thrawn05
Perhaps you should take a programming class.

Yeah right! I have been programming professionally over a decade, specialized in the field of AIs. Perhaps you should take some REAL programming class before you use the word REAL PROGRAMMER.

[Moonsinger]

Originally posted by Thrawn05

The AI cheats because it is written to cheat.

What you said is no different than what I originally said?

Originally posted by Moonsinger
AI doesn't cheat! The AI was programmed (by humans) to behave certain ways and it does exactly just that.

You are Mr. "glass half empty", aren't you?

[DeepO]

Hey Moonsinger, cherio mate! I was going to say the exact same thing (well, I've only been a professional AI programmer for 5 years, not over 10).

Cheating AI... if only people would have the slightest understanding of how intelligent they are themselves, they wold stop complaining on the lesser intelligence of software.

DeepO

[Moonsinger]

Originally posted by DeepO
Hey Moonsinger, cherio mate! I was going to say the exact same thing (well, I've only been a professional AI programmer for 5 years, not over 10).

Cool! Please to meet you.

Cheating AI... if only people would have the slightest understanding of how intelligent they are themselves, they wold stop complaining on the lesser intelligence of software.

Well said!

[Coracle]

Originally posted by Thrawn05

. . .The AI cheats because it is written to cheat. For example, free units, less corruption etc.

Doing that is the easy way to making a hard AI. A REAL ( ) programmer makes the AI smarter. . .

SO TRUE!! AI cheating is indeed the easy way to make a "hard" AI.

We are all sick of the sneaky insidious ways the Civ 3 AI cheats. I am also tired of Firaxis not giving us a LIST of all the AI cheats they have programmed into the game because their stupid AI was rushed and is sloppy and hence the game was designed to cheat.

AND WHERE IS THE CHEAT MODE we had in Civ 2?? Why did Firaxis vindictively kill the "multi.sav" cheat with patch 1.21??

The Civ 2 Cheat Mode was FUN. You know what FUN is, Firaxis?? We could change sides, control accelerated start ups, do lots of stuff. And if we wanted to actually "cheat" (like the Civ 3 AI does) SO WHAT? I paid my fifty bucks. Just LET ME have my fun.

But no. Firaxis took so much of the fun out of it all.

Give me back my Cheat Mode.

And if the AI didn't do so many stupid braindead things it wouldn't have to cheat like it does.