1.29 vs 1.21

[Solver]

It seems to me that the AI now attacks with attacking units! I saw the AI use Tanks and Modern Armor on attack now, not Infantry and Mech Inf like it would in previous patch. It does a better job at these units.

[Gastric ReFlux]

Yeah, there's been a definite decrease in the defensive units' Stacks of Doom that proliferated in 1.21.

[Arrian]

The major gameplay changes, as I see them:

1) Tech race. Instead of giving the AI super-speed research on Monarch and above, the AI is now normal-speed and the human is slowed down. This has two outcomes: a) the pace slows a bit; and b) once the human really gets going, a large tech lead is again possible.

2) AI unit preferences: Ding-dong! The 1-move stack of doom is dead!

3) AI tech path: I haven't seen the AI ignoring literature anymore. Same with chivalry. I assume this is the case for all of the "dead-end" techs.

4) "Commercial" civ trait boosted: Commercial civs got a nice boost with 1.29, although not really enough to change my ranking of the traits. I have played a couple of games with commercial civs (Rome, France) and can confirm a noticeable difference. France and India are now solid choices for builders. As a warmonger, I would rather have militaristic + a better trait (religious or industrious).

5) AI leader usage (NOTE: I am by no means sure of this): The one time I witnessed the AI generate a great leader, it disappeared into a nearby city and immediately I got the popup message: "The Iroquois have built JS Bachs in [that city]." So I'm 99% sure the leader was used on a wonder. In the past, I always saw AI armies. Given that this is one isolated observation, it's best to take this with a grain of salt.

I haven't changed my strategy much, except that I've learned the awesome power of buying the AI's workers (which requires diplomatic contact every single turn with every single civ, and is therefore tedious, but worth it). I do more early research, though, since I now deem it worthwhile (Monarchy beeline mostly).

-Arrian

[vmxa1]

Originally posted by SpencerH

I'm only playing my second game of 1.29 on regent. Again, I'm way way behind on techs despite having the GL. I havent got railroads yet and the lead AI civ has BUILT sufferage.

The GL has become obsolete if they have gotten all the way to sufferage. Same thing happened to me, once Education is discovered no more GL boost. I needed to get out Monarchto increase research.

[Solver]

If Arrian's 5 is right, I'm kinda happy...

[SpencerH]

Originally posted by vmxa1


The GL has become obsolete if they have gotten all the way to sufferage. Same thing happened to me, once Education is discovered no more GL boost. I needed to get out Monarchto increase research.

It should have read "despite having had the GL"

[vmxa1]

Ok, then I would not had wondered if you thought it was still kicking on advances. They are smart enough to get to ED asap once you have the GL, it seems. Normally I do not have it, but I had a leader and that was the only thing worth making at the time. It is too short lived to suit me for the price.

[SpencerH]

I got the GL with a leader because I was so far behind in tech (possibly from the constant warfare, but maybe not). I got quite a few techs out of it. At this point I'm just trying to bring to light differences between 1.21 and 1.29. Prior to 1.29 I only played regent i order to test out a mod. Now its either much tougher or its just bad luck. One point that sticks out in these games is that its been harder for me to trade with the AI for techs so that'll take some re-appraisal.

[vmxa1]

Post your findings as I played all of the patches up to the one before 129f at all levels, but I just came back to Civ3 so I can not remember for sure what the behaviors were. I have been at war nearly the this whole game and was thinking of trying to stay all the way in Monarch for a test, but I was getting so far behind in tech and could not trade, I had to go to Demo. I am at one end of a giant land mass, one of about three. 3 or four Civs have be bottled up. I am starting to push them back very slowly.

[SpencerH]

Well I gave up that game. A city that was close to the Brit civ that had been mine since 1800, pop half Brit half zulu, with every culture-happiness building, in a democracy, in WLTK, flips to the Brits who are "impressed" with my culture. WHAT CRAP! Especially when you consider that I couldnt get their cities to flip to me earlier despite that they were virtual islands within my civ. It doesnt make sense.

It was 2007 I was in 2nd place and only had about 1100 points and 47K culture. With earlier versions on regent I would have easily won by space race by 1950 with 2500 points playing with a similar style (if not with the zulu's). So its quite a change.

I looked at the replay.

The early AI expanded at double my speed up to about 10 AI cities so terrain may have been a big factor in that. Three of the civs were expansionist so that might also have been a factor.

My constant battles with the much improved barbs slowed down my expansion more than some of the AI's. The AI civs were able to civilize their continents more quickly so didnt face the barbs for as long. I think that was a big factor in their ability to focus on research.

I found it very hard to trade for techs with the AI. Despite my average tech discovery every 6 turns through industrial I remained in 4th place tech wise for most of the game and couldnt catch up to the tech of the Brits who or Greeks were not even close in terms of production capabilities. My interpretation is that the AI had to have traded more frequently with itself than with me. I dont know why that occurred though.

So far I'd have to say that 1.29 is a much tougher game!

[Arrian]

Interesting, Spencer, since my impression is the opposite - I think 1.29 is actually a bit easier. You may have just gotten a tough game... reload and have a look at the AI start locations. Sometimes they get nice starts and can be tough because of it. Terrain is a major factor.

As for the culture flip... well, you are playing a civ that has culture issues, and half the city was English. I will not comment further, because it's pointless.

-Arrian

[vmxa1]

I raze cities unless I bomb them down 2 or 3 so I do not have a flip. It is safer and just as easy to raze and build new.So far I have found tech trading to be very expensive after the first age.

[Arrian]

Tech trading is more expensive, due to the changes made in 1.29. This helps if you're ahead, and hurts if you're behind. Playing catchup is harder, but holding or extending a lead is easier. It now makes more sense to do your own research than to set the slider to 100% tax and buy your way through the tech tree (something I couldn't bring myself to do anyway). I like that.

-Arrian

[SpencerH]

Resource trading did seem more equitable though. There seemed to be less demands for 2 for 1.

[SpencerH]

Originally posted by vmxa1
I raze cities unless I bomb them down 2 or 3 so I do not have a flip. It is safer and just as easy to raze and build new.So far I have found tech trading to be very expensive after the first age.

I think the flip was caused by the large Brit city very close by. If I was in anarchy or the city was in disorder it would have made sense, but while in WLTK?

Often I just starve em down, but in this case I wanted a productive city right away.