Kamikaze!

[Frozzy]

Hey all. I just thought I would post a poll here, saying whether a new Civ game should have an action for air planes, where you can "Kamikaze" into an enemy unit/city. This would be good if your plane couldn't make it back to an airbase before they're feul ran out.

[J Bytheway]

I don't know whether it would be a good idea for all planes to be able to, but I once made a Civ2 scenario with Kamikaze bombers in, and the AI built hundreds of them! One city with two AEGIS cruisers and a SAM battery (that's x8 defense, IIRC) fended off about 40 bomber attacks in one turn (without losing any units, but both cruisers were half dead). I've never seen the AI do anything in such excess...

[Solver]

Generally threads with such general ideas over civ games would be belonging here...

[fittstim]

Kamikaze doesn't make sense. Soldiers don't willingly kill themselves. It takes strategy out of the game.

But since this whole issue isn't relevant to CivIII where bombers never run out of fuel (unlike CivI and CivII), I'm wondering what the point is???

P.S. Sorry if that sounds nasty. I'm just wondering if you meant this in a civII or civIII context?

[zulu9812]

You got Kamikaze pilots in WWII - that's where the term comes from: the Japanese suicide pilots.

redbull, just give planes the Cruise Missile ability and you have your kamikaze

[NeoStar]

Originally posted by fittstim
Kamikaze doesn't make sense. Soldiers don't willingly kill themselves. It takes strategy out of the game.

There must be limitation to the idea. I would see it being confined to one gov (fundamentalism - but its not there) OR mass suicides aggravating war weariness greatly.

[fittstim]

Originally posted by zulu9812
You got Kamikaze pilots in WWII - that's where the term comes from: the Japanese suicide pilots.

Really!?!?! I didn't know that

The point isn't whether a few loyal/warped pilots volunteered/were welded into the cockpit of a plane that was then loaded with explosives. The point is that the Kamikaze is not a "unit" any more than a "suicide bomber" or the opium-hazed Assassins of the Crusades era would be. They are blips on the screen. A sorry few compared to the real units of the armed forces.

Imagine having a waring strategy that was based on killing your own soldiers. What person would support such a thing? The cities would immediately rise up and rebel - switch to a more decent society.

If you want to make the point, then you should make a kamikaze unit appear randomly and rarely - much like a leader. Then you could have your wacko-kamikaze units but wouldn't be able to have a war strategy based on amassing dozens of units.

[The Pioneer]

I don't see how this concept can fit into Civ 3. For a later civ game I would much prefer that Firaxis would work on the Air and Naval concept a bit more so that we can enjoy them before we go to such units like a Kamikaze, although it's an interesting idea.

Maybe if somebody would do a WWII scenario in the Pacific theater, he could then implement it!

So long...

[vondrack]

Originally posted by fittstim
Really!?!?! I didn't know that

The point isn't whether a few loyal/warped pilots volunteered/were welded into the cockpit of a plane that was then loaded with explosives. The point is that the Kamikaze is not a "unit" any more than a "suicide bomber" or the opium-hazed Assassins of the Crusades era would be. They are blips on the screen. A sorry few compared to the real units of the armed forces.

Imagine having a waring strategy that was based on killing your own soldiers. What person would support such a thing? The cities would immediately rise up and rebel - switch to a more decent society.

If you want to make the point, then you should make a kamikaze unit appear randomly and rarely - much like a leader. Then you could have your wacko-kamikaze units but wouldn't be able to have a war strategy based on amassing dozens of units.

fittstim,

the Japanese used kamikaze pilots en mass throughout the late WW2, when desperately trying to stop the US from reaching the Japanese homeland. It was not just a few of them, they were ending their lives in hundreds. Also, the Japanese cities did not appear to rise up and rebel because of that, if you mention it. Actually, becoming a kamikaze was highly esteemed in the Japanese society. It had to do much with the cultural background of the nation.

Saying "what person would..." etc. is much like saying "what person would support suicidal Palestinian bomb-attackers?". However unbelievable and unsupportable this seems to Western people, these things happen and are apparently quite ok with other nations, which have different cultural background.

Said that, I would still not support a kamikaze unit to be included, mostly because even though they were used in big numbers, they were not very effective and meant very little as far as the military importance was concerned.

BTW... although the principle of kamikaze was tied mostly to planes/pilots, it was used, to an extent, with ships, too... The Japanese battleship Yamato (one of the grandest battleships ever built) joined by several smaller vessels ended her life in a futile attempt to suicidally intercept the US fleet. Had fuel enough to make it to the place of encounter only, but not back. Sunk by American naval bombers before having a slightest chance to fire a single shot...

[Thrawn05]

It makes no difference. Airplanes and anything else that uses bombardment are still horrible. Not worth the time to build.

[Thrawn05]

Originally posted by fittstim
But since this whole issue isn't relevant to CivIII where bombers never run out of fuel (unlike CivI and CivII), I'm wondering what the point is???

Those were the days.

I'm leaning towards having Firaxis go back to that system if they won't increase the range beyond 8 in the editor.

[HazieDaVampire]

The Nazi's had suicide soldiers, people who'd lost the whole of their family in the eastern front or through bombing raids could join a unit who would do missions that success would only come if the soldiers didn't care if they lived or died!

[Thrawn05]

Originally posted by HazieDaVampire
The Nazi's had suicide soldiers

How about replace the Samuri with the BONZI! unit.

[Hagbart]

I voted no, i'm tired of WW2!

[Hagbart]

BTW to Thrawn: No probs with huge maps? I have a p3-550 too and I have probs! Why?