naming elite units and leaders

[vondrack]

Re: upgrade?

Originally posted by GrendelS
can I upgrade units in armies? I had an army of riders until the modern times, too bad, some tank ate them for breakfast ;-)

Nope, you can't. Once you add a unit into an army, it cannot be taken out, nor upgraded.

[RedBird]

Ok, pay attention people.

As I said, the name is fluff. It doesn't mean anything. It's decorative only. (yes it would be great if you could name any unit and if you could then zoom to a named unit, but you can't [at least as of 1.29]).

Pay attention to the asterisk!!!. The asterisk means the unit has generated a Great Leader and cannot generate another (until/unless it's upgraded). If there is no asterisk then that unit can gen a GL. If there is an asterisk then it can not.

If you upgrade a named unit it will keep it's name, but the asterisk will go away. Thus if you upgrade a unit it may then generate another Great Leader (even though the previous incarnation of that unit already generated one).

Again, the asterisk goes away when you upgrade the unit (but the name does not which is why you should consider the name decoration only).

As was said above by Alva, a (unmod'ed) Swordsman which has gen'ed a GL will never gen another GL. Why? Because it will have an asterisk, and it can't be upgraded.

Another example: An elite Archer wins a battle, and gen's a GL. The unit gets an asterisk, and is illustriously named: "1st King's Archers". Later you learn Invention, and you upgrade your archer to a Longbowman. What does the unit look like? It has no asterisk, and it has the name "1st King's Archers" (yes, it stays "Archers" because you gave it the name Archers, and you can't rename it until it gen's another GL [and yes that is confusing so choose your names carefully - in this case your Longbowman will have no indication that it's a Longbowman other than the unit icon]). Once that Longbowman gets elite it may then gen another GL. After that it will never gen another GL since you can't upgrade Longbowmen.

Other comments:
No, an army will never gen a GL (though units in armies can get promotions all the way to elite), nor can you gen a GL fighting against barbarians. Vondrack is correct about neither unloading nor upgrading units in armies. Any comments to the contrary are referring to bugs in pre-1.29 versions of the game.

[trickey]

Thanks for the clairification

[Sheik]

Firaxis should allow you to get GL with an Army in either PLW or the next patch.

[Jaybe]

Originally posted by Sheik
Firaxis should allow you to get GL with an Army in either PTW or the next patch.

Since armies are so much more likely to not lose in combat, that would make it too easy.

(With apologies to those who cannot seem to get any GL's)

[mwaf]

Maybe a bit off-topic, but is it possible to have more than one Great Leader at once? Will I have to use my current Great Leader for and army or a rush-job before I can get another one?
The Military Advisor screen says, IIRC, "Available Leader", not "Available Leaders".

I want another Leader, but I don't want to use my existing one to build an Airport! (and I can build armies myself)

[Barchan]

Originally posted by mwaf
Maybe a bit off-topic, but is it possible to have more than one Great Leader at once? Will I have to use my current Great Leader for and army or a rush-job before I can get another one?

Sadly, no and yes.

[RedBird]

Originally posted by Barchan
Sadly, no and yes.

mwaf, just to make sure you know which question Barchan's "no" goes to...

You can only have one leader at a time. The Leader box is kind of like a bit-switch. There's a leader or there isn't. Never more than one.

When I'm looking to get a leader I check three things.
1) is my unit elite (I want a yes to this question)
2) does my unit have an asterisk (I want a no)
3) do I currently have a leader (I want a no)

[Arrian]

reefer addict,

There is one other factor in this equation I didn't see mentioned: the leader generation chance is halved for defenders. So if your elite infantry were primarily winning defensive battles, the chances of getting a leader were 1/32 (or 1/24 with the HE).

I love the naming feature. I like having the King's Bowmen, the Companions, the Praetorian Guards, etc. running around.

-Arrian

[reefer addict]

i had this happen while on the attack with elite infantry that had not already produced a leader.
it sounds to me like it was a string of terrible luck and not in the programming.
but i will name all my * units from now on just to be sure because i had atleast 80 fights and no leaders after going with the default name, but i got the usual amount of leaders with othere types of units that were renamed after generating leaders.

and i do know how leaders generation works, no more than one if it has made a leader, must not possess a leader and * units wont create any.

thx all

[RedBird]

Originally posted by Arrian
There is one other factor in this equation I didn't see mentioned: the leader generation chance is halved for defenders. So if your elite infantry were primarily winning defensive battles, the chances of getting a leader were 1/32 (or 1/24 with the HE).

Ah, interesting Arrian. I've been studying this leader & army business for a while now, and I didn't know that (though it does fit my experience). Where'd you get that tidbit?


reefer addict,

I can't remember if we've already asked you this, but do you have a .SAV file from just before this string of bad luck?

[Arrian]

Redbird,

It was posted by one of the Firaxis guys. I don't remember exactly where, though. I'm pretty sure it was in the strategy forum... we had a lot of discussion about Great Leader generation. I'm sure about the info, though, this isn't a "I think I saw somebody say..."

-Arrian

[Fighter]

I remember back in the early days of my current game, AZZKIKKA and HorseyDude. Next game I'll go with more historical names...

Also I noticed that AZZKIKKA, my Swordsman did better in battle than most swordsman. Does a unit become more uber when it creates a leader?

The other problem I have is being dry of leaders, Im sending Elite Cavalry up against elite Riflemen, fortified in cities upwards of size 12. I expect that if my Cavalry survives this he should have a GL! For the entire war so far I havent gotten one, and it was the reason I started the war!

[Arrian]

Fighter,

First, an elite unit that spawns a leader doesn't get any bonuses - it will fight like any other elite unit.

Second, I think most of us would agree that throwing elite Cavalry at elite riflemen in cities is a BAD IDEA. This is a waste of your elites. Baby them! Lead with your veterans, and save your elites for battles you are pretty sure you will win (there is no "guaranteed win" in CivIII combat). The difficulty of a battle has no bearing whatsoever on leader generation. Therefore, using an elite cavalry on a 1hp longbowman will give you the same chance of a leader as attacking that fortified rifleman in the enemy's capitol city.

-Arrian

[Theseus]

Originally posted by RedBird
Ah, interesting Arrian. I've been studying this leader & army business for a while now, and I didn't know that (though it does fit my experience). Where'd you get that tidbit?

When the news came out that an elite could only create on GL prior to an upgrade, we sorta went nuts on Firaxis asking for clarification... I forget, but either Soren or Mike B. responded, and gave the dope on how it all works (including fiinal confirmation that Armies could not do so... boo hoo ) I think it was also out of that discussion that they came up with the * and naming.