Updating Armies

[Andz83]

This might have appeared in a thread before, but I'm interested in your opinions and don't want to search another thread that deals with this topic
In Civ, when the military units were obsolete, one had to improve the armies for oneself. In Civ2, there is Leonardo's Workshop, which automatically upgrades your units. But this one does only count for one player, the others still have to upgrade their troups "by hand", just like it's repeated in CtP... bad game!
But when I discover new technologies, I first want to construct buildings, settlers, wonders etc. ( ). And so I don't want to interrupt my nice building-queue with creating new units. In my opinion, it would be better to:

Two choices:

1. be abel to construct units and buildings simultaneously, where the production of the city is divided (like trade is divided via tax rate)...

2. Have the possibility to upgrade the units with an amount of gold. When you research the new technology, you can spend a few thousands of gold coins to upgrade your whole army. Unfortunately, this wouldn't represent the realistic time it takes to upgrade the whole army of a country, so perhaps one should only be able to upgrade troups that are in a city not anywhere in the enemy country...interesting with ships that have to return from sea before they can be upgraded.

Think about it and answer!

P.S.: I hope this topic will get some replies b/c my last topic in this forum hasn't been replied as i expected (only 1 reply... )

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"The more I know, the more do I know that I don't know anything" - forgotten who said that...
"Within the peace, enemy attacks us..." - Kaiser Wilhelm II, August 1914
"Hell, yeah!" - James Hetfiels, while singing "Master Of Puppets" on Metallica-S&M-concert in spring 1999 in San Francisco

[OrangeSfwr]

I agree completely. And infact it has been discused on other threads. Check them out and put some of your ideas in. I like the first idea, I mentioned it in another thread myself. The idea of producing units and improvements (and also Wonders) separately is a good idea that should definitely be used in Civ 3.

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~~~I am who I am, who I am - but who am I?~~~

[Andz83]

Thanks for your reply, but I have to tell you about something:

I don't want to insult you but...

The first reply on my topic was made by a "chieftain". Well, you might be registered longer than me but in my last thread in this forum, that dealt with historical scenarios, the first (and only reply) was also given by a "settler" or "chieftain" or something similar.
That you are "chieftain" doesn't mean you're wrong but I recognized that mostly the posts of the ones with higher ranks (at least "prince") are really respected. *sigh* no Apolyton-veteran wants to reply to my topic *sigh*

Anyway, could you tell me about one of those threads that were made before?

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"The more I know, the more do I know that I don't know anything" - forgotten who said that...
"Within the peace, enemy attacks us..." - Kaiser Wilhelm II, August 1914
"Hell, yeah!" - James Hetfield, while singing "Master Of Puppets" on Metallica-S&M-concert in spring 1999 in San Francisco

[BeeBee]

Andz83,

both your ideas are great, certainly the first one indeed. Cities really should be able to produce military units while building a construction !!!

But don't take it to heart that "only" lower ranked people reply.
It is nonsense that they're less respected.


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C'est dur etre bébé

[Steve Clark]

I hadn't seen a reply like that before, prepare to take some heat. I, too, originally felt something along that line in that marketplace thread, thinking that some of those chieftains don't know what they're talking about. BUT you have to be careful in that chieftains like Orange and Gord may not have posted much, they actually may be vets of Civ from way back.

As to your thoughts, they are good ones and I hope this will lead to some discussions.

[WarVoid]

Don't get me wrong buddy but I was writing scenarios way back in civ1. And i'm only a settler. A friend found this forum for me and I signed on. I've written about 250 scenarios. Pretty much spanning the entire history of earth from every perspective. From the Hittite invasion of Phoenicia to the Pacific Islands 2000.
Now as to your idea it's a very good one.
Balance the three between the wonders, improvements and units. We could also allocate certain amounts of resources to each. Such as when you click on a resource in the city view it opens the area and turns one of your people into an entertainer. When you place that square back onto production you can set those resources toward whatever you want; wonders, improvements or units.
[This message has been edited by WarVoid (edited April 17, 2000).]

[Gord McLeod]

quote: Originally posted by Steve Clark on 04-17-2000 06:08 PM I hadn't seen a reply like that before, prepare to take some heat. I, too, originally felt something along that line in that marketplace thread, thinking that some of those chieftains don't know what they're talking about. BUT you have to be careful in that chieftains like Orange and Gord may not have posted much, they actually may be vets of Civ from way back.

Post counts are pretty much meaningless. There may be some people who set store by them but they'll learn eventually... I was an old timer on the original Firaxis forums for SMAC, way way too long ago. It became very obvious on those forums exactly how meaningless post counts could really be - people would post nonsense messages, create entire threads for no other reason than to increase their post counts and gain a higher "level". It was not unheard of to find legitimate posters with counts of over 1,000 or so, but it was exceedingly rare. It doesn't seem to be as bad here, but stop and think about it - which matters more, the number of posts or the material they cover?

[Steve Clark]

quote: Originally posted by Gord McLeod on 04-17-2000 08:48 PM It became very obvious on those forums exactly how meaningless post counts could really be - people would post nonsense messages, create entire threads for no other reason than to increase their post counts and gain a higher "level".

Gee, I wonder who here at Apolyton that fits?

[MidKnight Lament]

I'll back up just about everyone here. I've seen some supposed veterans say some really stupid things, yet there's a few cheiftans around at the moment who I really respect for their ideas. I try to remember who people are if they make a lot of sense to me.

As for the topic, it's been brought up a few times before, and generally people have ended up agreeing that having two build queues is a little superfluous. After all, would you want to have an improvement and a unit finished building on your 20th turn, or would you rather have the unit built on the 10th, and the improvement finished on the 20th? After all, you're using the same resources, and having two queues isn't going to build either the improvement or the unit faster.

If you're worried about build queues, perhaps there should be extra categories that are available for selection when you're building your queue. For example, "Highest (Available) Defender", "Best Mobile Attack", "Best All-round", "Highest Bombard". That way, when you discover Metallurgy (sorry for using a Civ1 example), your build queue would stop building catapults and start building cannons. So you wouldn't have to change your queue, because the category would update it for you. How does that sound?

As for simply paying for an upgrade - I don't think I like that idea. How realistic is it that with a bit of cash you could upgrade a catapult to a cannon? I'd say, not at all. You still have to build the thing. Leonardo's Workshop was a very cool wonder, but it was a bit unrealistic.

- MKL
"I'm OK. How are you? Thanks for asking, thanks for asking"
[This message has been edited by MidKnight Lament (edited April 17, 2000).]

[Earthling7]

I think the SMAC system of asking if you want to upgrade your units for cash is a good one.

"perhaps one should only be able to upgrade troups that are in a city not anywhere in the enemy country" Yes, but as troops return to cities they would be upgraded...



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Greetings,
Earthling7
ICQ: 929768

[Sir Shiva]

Back to the topic:

I am all for Andz's idea..
Perhaps you can fine tune your production to split it up into percentages for units, improvements, wonders. etc. You could save some presets and keep changing them.. Like for war time, you could devote 80% to knights and 20% to city walls..

PS. How nice it is to find a Metallica fan on Apolyton.. \

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-Shiva
Email: shiva@mailops.com
Web: http://www.crosswinds.net/india/~shiva
ICQ: 17719980

[Andz83]

Well, thanks for your replies to my first possibility. But what about the second one, to be able to upgrade unitsfor an amount of gold...I think this is to be discussed, too.

P.S.:I never wanted to say that "settlers", "chieftains" or "warlords" wouldn't say the truth, as WarVoid wanted to blame me for (if he talked with me when he called someone "buddy" ). I just said that I got the feeling that people with lower ranks, just like mine aren't as much respected as people with higher ranks. Some of you also made a statement to this point of view, so I can't have presented it wrong...

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"The more I know, the more do I know that I don't know anything" - forgotten who said that...
"Within the peace, enemy attacks us..." - Kaiser Wilhelm II, August 1914
"Hell, yeah!" - James Hetfield, while singing "Master Of Puppets" on Metallica-S&M-concert in spring 1999 in San Francisco

[BeeBee]

Midknight, do you have any idea how the resource model in civ3 will look like?
I mean, who says buildings and units will require the same resources?
After all, a bit unrealistic that a phalanx and a temple need the same stuff in order to be built.

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C'est dur etre bébé
[This message has been edited by BeeBee (edited April 18, 2000).]

[BeeBee]

Who says more realism makes the game unplayable? Let's see how Firaxis implements the whole stuff...
Anyway, didn't Sid Meier say there will be trade in a variety of resources (oil,...)?

Looks like there's gonna be distinction in resources needed for different things.
I might be wrong of course.

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C'est dur etre bébé

[Andz83]

I don't think it's funny to manage a whole many-resource-economy. That's not CIV anymore. When you really want that, play Colonization or Imperialism, which are both great games. But in a true Civ, a resource system would be awful.

Hmm,... I have to say I for myself thought about bringing more Colonization athmosphere into CIV (I mean: letting other people do that )...

Let's see. But if a resource system destroys CIV, I'll blame people like YOU for it, and I'll persecute you wherever you go.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHA