Redundant techs and random dead ends...

[Slingshot]

Orange and korn:

I like your ideas. But what about simply making the cost of a prototype expensive for the first civ, and progressively cheaper as either
1. Prototypes are made by other civs (-25% for second civ, -25% of the new cost for third, etc.)
2. Time progresses (say, -25% every three turns)

[korn469]

slingshot,

well to answer your question, my model is just a penalty if you are way ahead or completely seperated from all of the other civs...if you are not ahead then you have to pay the normal amount for prototypes instead of an inflated cost so this system would reward a civ surrounded by other civs that are about the same strength, it would punish civ that are a super power and have no threats...

this would encourage competition and would penalize civs that get way ahead

i think that i have figured out how to fix ICS, (read it here) and now the second greatest problem is the big get bigger and the weak get weaker

it is the small upstarts that are willing to inovate that bring about new changes and in civ3 they should have a fighting chance, there is a certain point in all civ games that when you reach a critical mass the game is won (long before the last shot is fired or the last votes are counted) this is a problem that needs solutions...after i am statisfied with a solution to ICS this problem will be the focus of my next Analysis and solutions thread

korn469

[Youngsun]

Korn.

You certianly made the idea much more detailed good job!

[Slingshot]

korn:

It sounds as though we are speaking the same language on this one.

By the way, where exactly could a fellow find the dark wastelands of apathy on a map?

You seem too good at suggesting creative ideas to be lost in apathy!

[Urban Ranger]

One of the problems can be solved by separating discovery/invention and application. This suggests the addition of a new type of unit: engineers.

Scientists are involved with discovering and inventing things. Once that is done, the task of finding some use of these new items is transferred to the engineers. So while every civ might discover/invent the same things, the applications could well be wildly different.

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audentes fortuna juvat

[The diplomat]

Urban Ranger: I like your classification a lot too. Here is how I think it could work:
new discoveries would be based on how much research you have allocated. A new discovery would function on the blind research principle where the player does not get to control which next discovery will be researched. When a new discovery is found, there would frequently be several different applications that the player would choose from. One discovery would have several applications. There might be a military application and a civilian application. The player would get to choose which application to shoot for. This would add more strategy to civ3 because the player would get to decide how to take advantage of a new discovery. Say "gunpowder" has 2 applications: to build the fireworks improvements which improves happiness or to build the musket that would be a better weapon. Like the Chinese did, you might opt for the fireworks because you really need to boost your happiness. Another civ that discovers "gunpowder" might create the musket. From the same discovery, would come very different applications. Thus, from the same discovery would come very different strategies.
To "research" the application, it would be based on the number of enginner specialist in your cities for example. this would make a distinction between a new discovery and actually turning that discovery into a working application. And it would prevent players that maximize their research to runaway with the tech lead.

discovery (by research points) -----> applications (by engineering points)

Instead of having inventions, let's simplify by just having discoveries and their applications. However, each application would have their own upgrades which would have to be researched using "enginnering points". For example, "Theory of flight" is a discovery. The "airplane" would be an application. The ww1 style 'fighter" would be an "upgrade". Then you might have the ww2 fighter as the next upgrade. The jet fighter has the next upgrade etc...

So, to get anything brand new, you would need good research but to simply improve on something that already exists or find an application, you would simply require good engineering.




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No permanent enemies, no permanent friends.

[Urban Ranger]

Youngsun,

Thanks for your comments! The Diplomat pretty much have my idea fleshed out. I was thinking exactly along those lines.

My head is woolly right now due to lack of sleep. So I'll take a good look at your model when I have catch up with sleep

The Diplomat,

Yes, I agree that discovery/invention must be done through blind research. It would also be interesting that a civ's character (however that can be defined) and SE settings affect the applications engineer specialists can come up with.

This distinction has interesting impacts on other areas as well, esp espionage. Scientific theories are generally available once they are formulated. However applications are jealously guarded. So agents may steal discoveries easily, however their own scientists may not be able to comprehend them

I have no problem lumping discoveries together with inventions, because they all got mixed up in Civ anyway. Alphabet is an invention while Theory of Gravity is a discovery. So it doesn't matter in terms of Civ

[Youngsun]

Diplomat

Your suggestion is very easy to understand and well described furthermore it sounds perfect to me.

I like your "reserch/engineering points thing" which sounds realistic and practical to be adopted into the game.

What about social needs/wants which can effect the discovery by giving more bonus to the civs which are more desperate to that specific tech? I memtioned this 9th post in "corporations" thread and my thought requires more works but at least you gave me clear vision. Thanks

Perhaps you can perfect my ideas as well as you did Urban Ranger's one. what do you say?

[Youngsun]

Urban Ranger

I really like Your classification of gaining a new technology.

Discovery
Invention
Application

This idea must be in Civ3.

Would you mind to describe your model little bit further with an example?

And would you mind comment on my model about "gaining a new tech"?
Criticisms/New ideas/Suggestions whatever.
Read 9th Post on "Corporation" thread.

[This message has been edited by Youngsun (edited March 18, 2000).]