Hmm, maybe militaristic stinks after all (post patch)

[Blake]

I find that the best leader generation times are in the early game and in the lateish game, when the AI attacks with a super-stack of infantry against your own super-stacked city.

Because elite upgrade is guaranteed the second time a veteran wins in a single turn, you get a lot of elites. Because infantry have such low attacks your elites then win a lot of battles. An AI super-stack attack seems to pratically guarantee a GL (altough you have to beat off the stack to get to keep the GL....)

So, iow, just because you failed to get a GL early in the game, don't lose heart, because industrial age pratically guarantees one if you can arrange for the AI to attack a city with an infantry superstack . Here it helps to have founded a single city on the AI landmass eons ago, because it's guaranteed to be attacked and can therefore be armed to the teeth without fear of the AI dodging it for an easier target.

[Venger]

Originally posted by Theseus
Venger, I worry about you... you can;t find better songs to quote?

How are you getting so many GLs? Are you fighting the mother of all wars (with MA against Pikes)?

Once I hit the modern age and get tanks (I have 4 tank units - tank, improved tank, main battle tank, and modern armor), I get alot of elites, as well as when I get mobile infantry and mechanized infantry, lots of elites. I'm conquering the planet, so... lot's of battles. Again, at least 10-20 on every one of MY turns, more during the AI turns as well. So alot of elites plus alot of battles means one GL per turn. It's kinda cool. Actually, I like renaming the units almost more than the GL action (since wonders are pretty much over and done with).

Venger

[Artifex]

The game is won or lost by modern age so leaders are kinda irrelevent then. I think they would be best on ancient and middle ages.

[Jaybe]

EXCUUUSE MEEE!
Venger, how's the flippin going as you are CONQUERING THE PLANET! If you are taking cities so quickly, you are probably not having much problem with enemy borders on cities you have taken only a turn or two ago!

[Arrian]

I agree, Artifex. A leader generated in 1500bc is almost infinitely more powerful than a leader generated in the modern age.

My record is 12 leaders in one game (standard map). All pre-Tanks (the only use I had for the Tanks I built was killing barbarian warriors... heh).

-Arrian

[Lord Merciless]

My record was 10. In that game I accidentally achieved Domination victory. I didn't even research the Motorized Transportation.

My experience is that Great Leaders are essential in turning the game into your favor.

[Barchan]

Originally posted by planetfall
Leader generation may be slightly smaller post patch, but still can be done.

Slightly smaller, indeed. My last pre-patch game I played the Germans and had so many GLs (particularly after Panzers...) I was eventually using 'em to rush cathedrals and whatnot.

However, post-patch I'm playing the Zulus (for a change) and not one GL yet, and I've nearly eliminated all the AI cities. I've been very conscious about using elites to kill the final defender to take cities and all the little tricks for generating GLs and I've gotten nothing for it.

True, it could be nothing more than a string of hard luck, but it'd be interesting to monitor just to see if it's something more....

[PeteBDawg]

For the record, you never get GLs from barbarians, right?

I rarely get them. I tend to build up my armies too much before I attack, and, since I save my elites for last, they rarely get used. This leads to erratic and difficult to control expansion into enemy territory. I need to learn to coordinate my wars with my production better. I suppose experience will do that.

[Barchan]

Originally posted by PeteBDawg
For the record, you never get GLs from barbarians, right?

Right.

[Vinicio]

Originally posted by Barchan

True, it could be nothing more than a string of hard luck, but it'd be interesting to monitor just to see if it's something more....

Well, I've noticed that my elites normally lose a couple of hp (2 or 3) during the battle at which they produce a GL. Sometimes, I'm going NOOO because I think it's going to die, and then POOF!, all of a sudden out comes a GL.

That maybe something...

[Artifex]

Yes I think your on to something. I notice that I never get great leaders in easy battles. Like a swordsman attacking a warrior out in the open. Then I notice if that same swordman loses 3 hp attacking a fortified phalanx in a city then poof out comes the GL..

[Arrian]

Barchan,

I played a game as China last night and got 4 leaders (Pyramids, Great Library, FP, Hanging Gardens) in the ancient age (1.29)... though the game actually isn't going all that well. The problem is that India is a freakin' MONSTER. The tweak to commercial clearly helped. If and when I finish that game off (it was just a test), I will waste 'em with Riders.

Anyway, my point is that I don't think any changes were made to leader generation.

-Arrian

p.s. I love naming my elite* units

[dunk]

So far my record is two. It's in the game I'm currently playing as the Chinese (Militaristic and Industrious). I'm about 2/3 of the way through the Middle Ages. I never played too far into a game as a militaristic civ. I love the trait now. I have a great appreciation for Scientific, Militaristic, Industrious, and Religious. Commercial might be my next experiment. Expansionist is ok at best, I never seem to find very many goody huts. Are goody huts dependant on barbarian activity level or is that just barbarian camps?

[Arrian]

Dunk,

You need lots of open space for expasionist to shine. Either use really big maps or normal maps with less than max civs if you want to test out the trait.

-Arrian

[The_Hawk]

Artifex,

I am having the same experience during my experiment with Romans. I built a ton of veteran Legionaries (I always build barracks with militaristic civs since its so cheap) and whipped the French and Iriqois down to having one city left. I built AoW with my first and ONLY leader. I expected to get more GLs since I was playing a militaristic Civ and to no avail. I'm behind in the tech race (playing on Regent) and needed GLs to catch up on the GW races.

Frustration sets in as I ponder my bleak fate....

I need a GL NOW!! I am making a play to own my continent, which is the largest one and only have to rid myself of the English to do it. I have an exclusive fleet of elite Legionaries (from earlier conquests) and Cavalry (from my current exploits against English and their MPP Chinese friends). Since Rome is not industrious, i'm behind on infrastructure, and City Improvement infrastructure as well, since their so expensive. I'm attacking only with Elite units and winning everytime.... no GL. Only when I attack a pop-rushed riflemen will I send a veteran unit. They get promoted to Elite on the first or second attack, but no GL. What could I be doing wrong?

If I don't get some of these key GWs my late game will be interesting. As it is, i've had to buy most of my techs and now Civs are asking for my left nut just to keep up.

The Hawk scratches head and seriously considers bailing on his militaristic experiment and returning to the peaceful comfort of building and cultural dominance w/ Babs or Egypt...