Galleys in ocean squares

[SpencerH]

A few weeks ago we were discussing the AI's tech avalanche and the role of AI galleys traversing the ocean in that avalanche. With Soren's help it was deduced that the civilopedia (that says caravels) was incorrect so that once magnestism is discovered even galleys can cross oceans.

This was not fixed in 1.29 (probably wasnt time). Since I dont want galleys crossing oceans I thought I'd look in the editor to see what could be done.

Galleys- sink in sea, sink in ocean

Caravels- sink in ocean

Galleons - traverse all waterways

Looks fine to me, a logical progression in naval abilities

The great lighthouse- Allows safe sea movement (for galleys) +1 movement.

A useful wonder on watery maps

Astonomy-allows TRADE over sea tiles
Navigation- allows TRADE over ocean tiles
Magnetism- allows TRADE over ocean tiles

Now I'm confused. Doesnt this mean that trade routes can be calculated over sea and ocean tiles rather than just coastal tiles? There is nothing to allow galleys to safely traverse the ocean unless the game coding associates TRADE with ABILITY to TRAVEL. As far as I can see there is nothing I can do to stop the AI from using galleys to traverse the "Atlantic Ocean".

Is this an oversight?

[Provost Harrison]

Well obviously the traders are using ships that are more sophisticated than galleys

[Willem]

There's now another method you can use to discourage Galleys from crossing Oceans. Increase the movement costs of both Sea and Ocean, I've gone with 2 for Sea, 3 for Ocean. Then when you get to Frigate etc, give the ships the "All Terrain as Roads" flag, and adjust their movement rate accordingly. So when calculating the shortest distance to a destination, Galleys etc, should rarely end up in an Ocean square.

[SpencerH]

Originally posted by Willem
There's now another method you can use to discourage Galleys from crossing Oceans. Increase the movement costs of both Sea and Ocean, I've gone with 2 for Sea, 3 for Ocean. Then when you get to Frigate etc, give the ships the "All Terrain as Roads" flag, and adjust their movement rate accordingly. So when calculating the shortest distance to a destination, Galleys etc, should rarely end up in an Ocean square.

Those changes would negate the sea-positive effects of the great lighthouse though, since it can only add +1 to movement.

[Willem]

Originally posted by SpencerH


Those changes would negate the sea-positive effects of the great lighthouse though, since it can only add +1 to movement.

So you wait until you can build a Caravel! It still won't affect your ability to establish trade routes over Sea squares, just the movement rate of your Galleys. It sounds a bit more realistic to me that way.

[SpencerH]

I think its a useful idea for me (since I dont play a naval expansionist game) but for those who do, the effects of great lighthouse are a key component in that strategy.

[Coracle]

Re: Galleys in ocean squares

Originally posted by SpencerH
A few weeks ago we were discussing the AI's tech avalanche and the role of AI galleys traversing the ocean in that avalanche. With Soren's help it was deduced that the civilopedia (that says caravels) was incorrect so that once magnestism is discovered even galleys can cross oceans. . .

WHAT???

Are you telling me that it took nearly NINE MONTHS to discover such an important error?? Are you kidding?


BTW, anyone who says galleys could ever cross oceans is just making things up as they go along. It's crazy.

[Willem]

Re: Re: Galleys in ocean squares

Originally posted by Coracle

BTW, anyone who says galleys could ever cross oceans is just making things up as they go along. It's crazy.

The Viking Longboats were basically Galleys, even smaller maybe. Yet they made it to North America.

[sabrewolf]

Re: Re: Re: Galleys in ocean squares

Originally posted by Willem


The Viking Longboats were basically Galleys, even smaller maybe. Yet they made it to North America.

they went up on the north route: known route until iceland and greenland, then past all those canadian tundra-islands to north america... so basicly coastal squares (except known parts)... and we don't know how many attempts had been done

[Willem]

What about the Polynesians? All they had was Outriggers, yet they colonized almost every habitable island in the South Pacific.

[Theseus]

Good call, Willem.

Pre-Polynesians, this included Australia by 40,000BC.

(although that's pre-Civ, much less Mapmaking)

[Thrawn05]

Re: Galleys in ocean squares

Originally posted by SpencerH
A few weeks ago we were discussing the AI's tech avalanche and the role of AI galleys traversing the ocean in that avalanche. With Soren's help it was deduced that the civilopedia (that says caravels) was incorrect so that once magnestism is discovered even galleys can cross oceans.

I thought navigation caused galleys to traverse ocean tiles?


Did I miss somthing?

[Willem]

Originally posted by Theseus
Good call, Willem.

Pre-Polynesians, this included Australia by 40,000BC.

(although that's pre-Civ, much less Mapmaking)

Not to mention Hawaii. They had to go across ocean to reach there, and their ships weren't nearly as sophisticated as Galleys, as they're portrayed in the game. They were little more than canoes with a sail.

[alva]

Re: Re: Galleys in ocean squares

Originally posted by Coracle



WHAT???

Are you telling me that it took nearly NINE MONTHS to discover such an important error?? Are you kidding?

hmm, rather unfortunate

BTW, anyone who says galleys could ever cross oceans is just making things up as they go along. It's crazy.

No, you just call it a game (sincere)

[SpencerH]

The Norse longships and even the polynesian canoes were not galleys, they were small sailing ships. Small doesnt mean not ocean-worthy. Galleys (at least the mediteranian ones) were never designed for ocean going travel but were better weapons than the sailing ships of the time (which is why I have a fire galley mod that is a fighting ship )