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**MarkG** · July 11, 2002, 05:44

you might want to give a link

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00005JC8D/apolytonciviliza

btw, here is a complaint on the fact that civ3 is a new game not civ2 with better graphics

in Civ II, I finally learned to be the infrastructure dynamo. I learned the best ways to connect my cities and improve the landscape so that I could out-produce, out-research, and just plain out-muscle my competition up to at least Emperor level. Unlike the original, where I just conquered like mad. But playing Civ III made me feel like I was learning all over again. Why in the world should an experienced Civ player have trouble connecting his oldest and most powerful cities with railroad well until the 1900's on Chieftain level?!

**MarkG** · July 11, 2002, 05:46

more

This game is an order of magnitude more frustrating than Civ II.
It is nearly impossible to win at the Chieftain level without replaying moves. And that is ridiculous.

i cant win. i have to learn new rules. the game sucks.

**alva** · July 11, 2002, 05:52

Diddn't know Coracle did reviews too

**Nubclear** · July 11, 2002, 06:21

Re: Check the reviews on amazon

The lack of game options the player has is indicative of the dictatorial manner of Sid Meiers.

but I was soon to find out that this was but another AOE clone with a Alpha Cetauri engine.

I, Have to Admit, Infogrames did a great job with civilization 3. But you should keep you money, there is no multiplayer feature in this game, save your money and buy the multiplayer addition when it comes out.

On the other hand, the aerial units are very much improved - and the bombing runs are simply fantastic.

Even on Warlord, I was fighting for my Civilation's life every moment.

**The Pioneer** · July 11, 2002, 06:22

It's interesting that out of a total of 358 the avg. rating is 3 1/2 stars. I am not suer what conclusion one can draw from it or even what conclusions Firaxis will draw from it but it's interesting nonetheless. I'd till give the game a solid 4 stars, I would go for 4 1/2 if there were more options on the Diplomacy screen and I never would give a 5 to any game out of principle.

**David Murray** · July 11, 2002, 07:59

Re: Check the reviews on amazon

Originally posted by cumi
Hi,

check the 1-2 star reviews for Civ3 on amazon.com...

Very funny comments, like: ..."stupid game the AI has always better army bigger civ"..."you don't have all the resources"..."can not trade"..."unable to win even on lowest level"...

So next time, Mr. Game-Developers, develop a game, with nice graphics, great sound effects, nice animations and movies and only one button: "WIN" - so you can really enjoy the game.

----- discusting

Quite frankly I believe that people are allowed to complain about a game's level of difficulty. Some people enjoy sitting for hours trying to learn how to play a game but others do not. Perhaps the people who frequent Apolyton Civilization consider such opinons Philistine, but for the average, casual gamer who doesn't really spend that much time playing games, it is perfectly valid to state one's opinon that Civilization 3 is a very difficult game.

**Alex** · July 11, 2002, 08:10

Re: Re: Check the reviews on amazon

Originally posted by David Murray

Quite frankly I believe that people are allowed to complain about a game's level of difficulty. Some people enjoy sitting for hours trying to learn how to play a game but others do not. Perhaps the people who frequent Apolyton Civilization consider such opinons Philistine, but for the average, casual gamer who doesn't really spend that much time playing games, it is perfectly valid to state one's opinon that Civilization 3 is a very difficult game.

Problem is, Firaxis simplified the game for the casual gamer! I know that this might be from a veteran civ player's point of view, but reading the posts around here you'll notice how a lot of people think that Civ3 was dumbed down for the mass market. I agree with them to a certain extent, but the game is not so difficult to learn, especially when you play on Chieftain level. My first Civ3 game was on Chieftain and I managed to win automating most things, the game was almost playing by itself!

I guess that the Amazon reviewers either are not so proficient with strategy games ("Where's my superturbochargegun? I want to frag someone!!!") or they are too lazy to think a little bit. Just a little bit.

**zulu9812** · July 11, 2002, 08:10

well, civ games have never been pick-up-&-play games. The learning curve is pretty steep initially, and the manual's rubbish, but the investment in time and effort is certainly worth it. Wouldn't you agree

?

**cumi** · July 11, 2002, 08:19

Re: Re: Check the reviews on amazon

Thats right! The only thing what I wanted to tell, is you can rate games as easy, easy to learn, difficult and so, and you can rate games as good or bad. I don't think that mixing these two arguments has a sense. It can be a very difficult game but it doesn't means that it is soooo bad.

In the beginning I was also loosing all the time on the easyest level. Even now I am playing sometimes on the easyest level, just because I want to enjoy and not to suck. Hardest level than warlord i didn't even tried.

Yes, this game is a bit difficult without hundreds of hours of playing and reading / learning strategies from this forum...

**Hurricane** · July 11, 2002, 08:35

Another problem is that Chieftain probably isn´t the easiest level. The AI is so slow that you can´t trade with them for most of the game, which requires that you yourself need the skill to properly balance science/tax/happiness in order to win the game before 2050. On Regent, you can have your tax at 100%, buy all techs and just crank out units as fast as you can and eventually win a domination victory.

**Barchan** · July 12, 2002, 03:02

And let us not forget that the general buying public is, well, let's just say "ill-equipped" to properly comprehend the concept of a strategy game. Let's look at the top five selections at Amazon, shall we?

1. WarCraft 3: Reign Of Chaos (click, click, click, click, click and etc.)

2. WarCraft 3: Reign of Chaos Collector's Edition (same amount of clicking for more money

)

3. Neverwinter Nights (Ooh, I'm a mighty half-orc barbarian-sorceror!

Pssht, 3rd edition rules. Please!)

4. Grand Theft Auto 3 (Vroom, screech, crash! Oh, if only *I* were old enough to drive....)

5. The Sims (Ah, now *here's* a real brain-crusher; I hear even Stephen Hawking can't solve this game).

Note: I'm sure these are fun games and all, but thinking man's games they ain't.

Lastly, do you have *any* idea how many copies of "deer hunter" and "deer's revenge" and "big game trophy" and other inane hunting sims have sold? The mind, I assure you, boggles at the number, given the drek being peddled. Thus, I'm not at all surprised to hear limping halfwits complain "me no win game, me no like!" I like the idea of the "Win" button, but only if it causes the computer to explode and take the credit-card toting waste of oxygen that pressed the button along with it!

Whoops. Overstayed my welcome on the soapbox! Best get down now. Sorry all....

**notyoueither** · July 12, 2002, 03:46

I have a difficult time understanding it. I played first game on Deity. Got stomped before 1000bc. Watched the replay with all the pretty coloured dots popping up. Bad thing was that only 1 of mine for every 4 to 6 of each of theirs popped up. Whispered, we're not in Kansas anymore Sid.

Turned it down to Regent and won then worked up from there.

I'm not trying to say, I am great... hear me roaaar. What I observed is something that anybody can do. Basic REXing worked in Civ. It worked in Civ2. It works in Civ3. Just have to be more disciplined about it with 3.

At any rate, the overall rating is 3.5. That's not bad for a controversial design that is very much more difficult than its predecessors at any given level.

**ChaotikVisions** · July 12, 2002, 03:49

3. Why can't workers gain experience and become more productive like the way soldiers become veteran and elite? This game unwittingly shows a bit of cynicism toward the "working class". They don't learn!

That guy actually liked the game, just one of his ideas on how to improve it.

Ok, so in eager anticipation of the release of the third installment of the best, and most time consuming, game in computing history, I went ahead and did the logical thing: I dumped my girlfriend. It would have happened eventually I figured, the choice being the game or her and I figured I might as well make a clean break of it-lest it interfere with the countless months of fun that lay ahead. I eagerly installed the game. A short while later I watched breathlessly as a warrior with a stone axe defeated my conscripted infantryman armed with a modern firearm. Then he defeated a second infantryman and then a third and a fourth. Later on still, I tried to exhale slowly as my hardwon accumulation of ironclads were ambushed and sunk to their last rivet by a lessor fleet of aggressive wooden galleons. Appealing to my neighbors for aid I discovered that it was too late, if only I had accepted their earlier diplomatic proposals-but I had foolishly found their requests for the entirety of my treasury and the secrets of Engineering, Masonry, Conscription, Physics, Combustion, Communism, Democracy, Chivalry, Flight and Gunpowder to great a price to pay.
Now my long empty nights are not filled with the chirpy soundtrack of civ 3 but of the lonely ghostly ballads of Roy Orbison as I cry myself to sleep.

I thought this guy was pretty funny, though i've never heard of barb warriors beating anything more then ancient age units. Who knows, I guess.

Here is what for me has become a typical scenario: After several hours of play, I've finally gotten my empire really expanding and taking shape. The other factions have made their entrances and negotiations are under way! And THEN...Persia rudely demands a map of my territory. I refuse, and Persia declares WAR! and steals a bunch of my land with only token resistance from my forces (what are these guys doing)!? My national treasury is suddenly empty and units are being disbanded. Half my cities are aflame because, dammit, the people need CLOWNS. Every wonder I was constructing gets built by somebody else and my production has been switched--at a significant loss--to something that I don't have the gold to support after it's completed. My advisors each have a separate agenda, but nobody's agenda appears to pertain whatsoever to the game I am currently playing. And, of course, the Babylonians, English, French and Egyptians have all signed a trade embargo against me because I so gravely wronged their dear friends, the Persians. About this time I decide the game's entertainment value has dropped to just below watching that woman on TV who pretends to read dogs' minds, or maybe searching the phone book for people with funny or unusual names.

This guy liked the game too, just some of his complaints about it. I think the part about the people needing clowns outta be added to the Apolyton quotes.

Reviewer: A 9-year old gamer
Civilivation 3 is fun game because you can fight in wars,trade and build citys.You can also build buildings and collect resources.Workers can build roads, clear forests or jungles and irrigate land.You can pick from tons of worlds or create your own on Civ 3 edit...

Now surely this will prove to Coracle that Civ3 is a great game.
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Heh, and thats only out of 40 reviews, i'm sure there is more. Quite funny, never considered what the average gamer might think of Civ3, just figured strategy people played it.

Oh and Barchan have you ever played Warcraft 3? I'll give you that it doesn't take as much work as Civ3, but its much more then just clicking.

**Barchan** · July 12, 2002, 07:44

Originally posted by ChaotikVisions
Oh and Barchan have you ever played Warcraft 3? I'll give you that it doesn't take as much work as Civ3, but its much more then just clicking.

No, I've played the others, but not Warcraft 3. I know it's more involved than just clicking; I was just being facetious to make a point. The hunting games, though, *are* totally inane.

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