Patch idea: obsolute units.

[muxec]

In game often occurs the situatin: Longbowman destroys tank. But in the real life it's phisically imposible. I saw a lot of solutions and have my own variants:
1. Industrious unit always destroy ancient taking no damage and modern destroys midaged units.

2. Each unit have attack type and armor type. Examples:
Warrior- Melee attck, skin armor
Longbowman- Arrow attack, skin armor
Tank - Steel armor, heavy autogun attack
etc. So melee and arrow attack can-not destroy steel armor, autogun attack always destroys melee units.

[zulu9812]

you could just increase the attack/defense of units using multipliers based on the era they come in. It's not difficult, just a matter of playtesting - so give it a try and post it as a mod.

[Jon Shafer]

He's right.

But I think the main reason that Firaxis didn't make the values so terribly far apart is because if you get a certain tech that gives you a new unit from a new era (say, Modern Armor), then if someone still has a few units hanging around from the Industrial Era, then that civ will be demolished. Giving Riflemen, say, a 10 defense and Modern Armor a 50 attack means total destruction.

[Carver]

Yes Zulu, but I think Muxec's point is that it should be impossible for a pikeman to destroy a moder armor. Changing the A/D/M still leaves open the possibility.

Personally, I think there should always be a chance for a pike to destroy a tank (this is a game and in games all players should have a chance - although it should happen much less frequently).

[Velociryx]

Remember folks.....

It's a feature.

-=Vel=-

[dunk]

I think it's fine the way it is. No need to change it. I would, however, like to not see swordsmen in my build options in 1945. They should become obsolete with riflemen (a land unit with higher attack). Same with longbowmen. Obviously, if these units are the only ones I can build, by all means, I want them in there. But I don't want my Domestic Advisor suggesting I build swordsmen after I complete the Interplanetary Party Lounge.

EDIT: Added text below.

Here is a link to a "Civilization Calculator" that someone made. Great work.

http://www.columbia.edu/~sdc2002/civulator.html

A pikeman fortified in a metropolis on grassland will destroy an attacking tank about 16% of the time (assuming both units are veteran). That's fine to me.

EDIT: corrected the number.

[Inverse Icarus]

do i have to say it again? alright, here we go.

the longbowman division sneaks up behind a few of the tanks, opens the hatch, and quickly launch a volley into the tank. With all the people dead, they sieze the tanks, and begin opening fire on the other enemy tanks.

all the tanks they conquered are destroyed in the melee, and the archers walk away scot free.

[Velociryx]

I don't have the numbers in front of me, but what would really be interesting to see is a price comparison.

How much do five pike cost vs. one tank?

-=Vel=-

[Destroyer]

Why not just make longbowmen, swordsmen and what ever else upgradeable. Its simple enough, and also fairly realistic; whats the difference upgrading between pikemen to musketeers and longbow men, or even warriors to musketeers?

[OPD]

Yeah IMO everything all units should be upgradeable and perhaps even interchangable. But the more bizarre changes should be more expensive for example swordsmen to modern armour could cost about 1000 gp.

I remember the film appocalypse now when Sheen talks about how a cavalry unit swapped all their horses for choppers.

[Palleon]

Well, even in real life, obsolete units can defeat modern ones, just taking massive losses, which does happen in the game. When Germany invaded Poland, Poland only had cavalry units. They were decimated, but a few were able to throw grenades inside the panzers and destroy them. Obviously not enough to win the battle, but it did do some damage. Lucky shots do happen.

Edit - Or maybe it was when Italy invaded Ethiopia. One of the two I remember reading about it in my war history class.

[Ben Williams]

I like the idea of eliminating extream combat differances by making it impossable for some units to destory others. Because an upgrade is the equivilant of re-arming and re-training the same men (ignoring for a moment that nobody lives 5000 years), a unit of troops is defined by the weapons they use, a pikeman cannot sneak up on a tank and throw an explosive at it because they do not have them. The basic problem would arise from the AI using dated units, changing the probablity of victory in some situations from slim to none, giving the player a great advantage. This could be fixed as well, however, just by making the AI upgrade periodically, say at the beginning of every age.

[Nakar Gabab]

I mod swordsmen and longbowmen to upgrade to riflemen. No muss, no fuss, you can upgrade, and they both poof out of the build menu. Nice. Did a similar thing for ships. Probably the simplest solution I can think of.

[The Pioneer]

Originally posted by UberKruX
do i have to say it again? alright, here we go.

the longbowman division sneaks up behind a few of the tanks, opens the hatch, and quickly launch a volley into the tank. With all the people dead, they sieze the tanks, and begin opening fire on the other enemy tanks.

all the tanks they conquered are destroyed in the melee, and the archers walk away scot free.

Now that's a funny thing to picture

I am not sure though that a longbowman would know how to open a latch and I know he would be able to handle an armor.

On the side for game balncing reasons I do agree with some absolete units having a chance of eliminating more modern ones. It's funny though to see Samurais eliminating not just one but a couple Tanks all in one turn without them taking any casualties!!!

I also have moded my game for absolete units to upgrade to rifleman and for ships to destroyers which may be an unbalancing factor because the AI does not upgrade them.

[notyoueither]

hmmm...

First, they are numbers more than they are any particular 'unit'. Look at it this way they are 2.1.1 units and 16.8.2 units.

Given the system of combat, you could very well lose a 16.8.2 when attacked by a 2.1.1. Not very often, but it can happen.

Maybe you'd be happier if you modded the graphics? It is possible to have your 1.2.1s and 2.1.1s show up with bazookas in their hands in the industrial era if you add some folders and animations. Just how many units do you know that kept the same weapons for 6000 years?

I agree, it would be better if Firaxis did this and made it part of the 'standard' game.