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**Theseus** · July 1, 2002, 00:07

A major factor in how the AI civs think of you is your general strength.

If in wiping out France you became the leader, the AI civs will look at you askance.

Germany now, logically, considers you a threat, even though you have been more or less partners.

Hmmm, Bizzy-marcky looks tempting, eh?

**alva** · July 1, 2002, 00:26

mmm maybe, but even before this i allready was in the lead. So i gueass that's not it.

I might have figured it out though

Perhaps they were selling tech (wich you can still do even with a trade embargo) to france for GPT. Since France is no longer there, well they not paying anymore are they

But this is not the case for Germany, afterall they were at war with France, so they could't do any trading at all
or am i missing something?

**Theseus** · July 1, 2002, 00:34

There are many reasons why Germany could get mad.

For instance, if they were getting many gpt from France, enough to pay you whatever they owe, and now they can't afford it, the Germans will get angry.

It's pretty complex, like RL...

If you definitely want to make nice with Germany, give'em 5 gp each turn.

On the other hand, taking Berlin is usually a major mood modifier.

**dexters** · July 1, 2002, 01:00

Hewheheheh.

Theseus, I noticed that the AI stays on furious for a LONG time when you've captured on of their cities. This happened to me with the Japanese. I captured 2 cities, a Japanese island city off my coast a city on their mainland.

The some turns later, a world war erupted, all the civs vs me--The chinese went around signing Military alliances against me!. I know that the city on the mainland was difficult to defend and decided to pull back to the island and give the city to the Japanese, who hasn't yet declared war. I joined ALL the japanese workers I've captured into the city I was about to leave and gave it to japan. They accepted, but remaiend furious. It wasn't until something like 30 or heck maybe 50 turns later that they became annoyed.

**alva** · July 1, 2002, 01:08

Originally posted by dexters
Hewheheheh

OT: I don't really care what them Germans think of me

the game should be won anyway (would like to finish at least one, so i'll keep going for a bit more on this one )

Was just curious why they did change from polite to cautious, that's all. They might around in a couple of turn, after they had some time wether or not to p*ss me of

not bad for my first emperor game

**Prince** · July 1, 2002, 06:18

Well, in my current game, I'm stuck on a large continent with 2 (previously 3

) civs and I'm kind of stuck in the middle. Both the Indians and the Japanese were always polite towards me, but the Indians started moving troops into my territory and suddenly declared war a couple of turns later. Nothing happened to the Japanese, but I still can't figure out why the Indians declared war on me. Maybe they didn't like my iron monopoly

Point, the AI can do some strange things sometimes.

**Arrian** · July 1, 2002, 09:45

I'd bet Germany had trade deals with France that were cut off due to your destruction of France. If Bismarck was buying resources or luxuries from France, which you now have, he may be annoyed at you. Try selling him some stuff.

Sometimes it's just the jump in power. You get strong, the AI gets jumpy. Especially Bismarck, who is coded to be ornery. I played a game once where I never did anything wrong to Bismarck, and had several trade deals with him. He was "furious" for centuries, but too much of a wimp to do anything about it (he was, after all, stuck on Australia).

-Arrian

**dunk** · July 1, 2002, 10:22

I think the AI is either cautious or annoyed unless you have a Right of Passage with them.

I had almost every civ annoyed or furious with me. So, I signed ROPs with them. Now, anybody's military units can go anywhere they like.

Also, every civ is now Polite with me.

**alva** · July 1, 2002, 12:52

Originally posted by Arrian
I'd bet Germany had trade deals with France that were cut off due to your destruction of France. If Bismarck was buying resources or luxuries from France, which you now have, he may be annoyed at you. Try selling him some stuff.

-Arrian

Hmm, don't think so.
He was at war with France, i sort of forced him into it

, letting France attack me on my soil. We both (France and I had MPP's with Germany).
So Germany was not doing ANY trading with France.

Anothing thing: The way MPP's are triggered seems a bit symplistic to me.

**Arrian** · July 1, 2002, 13:15

Originally posted by dunk999
I think the AI is either cautious or annoyed unless you have a Right of Passage with them.

I had almost every civ annoyed or furious with me. So, I signed ROPs with them. Now, anybody's military units can go anywhere they like.

Also, every civ is now Polite with me.

Three words about RoP's with the AI:

Watch your back.

-Arrian

**Fitz** · July 1, 2002, 13:42

Alva, it's very simple:

1) Germany's natural state towards you while in a ROP & MPP is cautious.
2) While you were in an alliance against France and a trade embargo against France, his mood was artificial inflated by these facts to polite.
3) Once you killed France, the alliance and embargo ended, and his mood returned to its natural state, to whit: cautious.

I notice this all the time. Civs all cautious, sign alliances and they get bumped up to polite, war/alliance ends and they go back to cautious. Sometimes they even drop to furious, their natural (ie uninfluenced by alliance) mood having droped to that point during the course of the alliance, but the mood inflation kept me from noticing in the mean time.

**Arrian** · July 1, 2002, 15:23

Excellent points, Fitz. I've seen the same thing in my games.

-Arrian

**dexters** · July 1, 2002, 17:17

It is also one of the nice touches to give the AI civs some humanity.

Some AI civs, I find, tend to view your in a hostile light, and while their views will go up a notch or two in an alliance, once that alliance ends and the common enemy is gone, they return to feeling hostile towards you.

Doesn't that pretty much describe real life geopolitical relationships between nations?

Russia-US-UK (Allies)

Russia vs US (cold war)

US - China (allies against Russia)

US v China (Bush's strategic competitor speech)

US-Russia (War on Terrorism)

It's remarkably true to life and one of the many small touches most detractors of the game fail to notice.

**alva** · July 1, 2002, 17:42

@ dexters: Good point

I hardly ever compare civ to RL though, for me it is a game

but it's to see things like this from time to time :b

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