Simple Unit Building Idea

[Panag]

Originally posted by playshogi
Frankly, not only is the airport useless, but air units themselves are quite useless. I never build any. Artillery, with unlimited rail movement, are much more flexible.

hi ,

what ya gone do if the AI comes with 25 jet's , and 30 bombers , .....

have a nice day

[Captain]

Originally posted by Travathian
Keep in mind, a lot of the late game units require strategic resources to be built. Maybe as a compromise to some of these ideas, these units could be built without the strategic resource, if a certain building is available.

Heck this could be used throughout the game. A laboratory in a city means it doesnt need saltpeter, a coal plant means it doesnt need oil, etc etc.

Hey! Now there's a new idea I haven't seen yet! Cool!

Resources are still important since it takes time (which you might not have) to build the prereq buildings, and the prereq buildings might also have maintenance costs while resources don't.

All the more reason to put in the editor option of having building prereqs for units.

In my view, all Firaxis has to do is give us the tools. Put it in the editor and by trial and error with lots of playtesting, we can come up with something that's balanced. Or everyone can play with their own mod and be happy!

One last reason for adding this:
Create a series of Wonders that replace each other so that you can only have 1 at any time in your possession. (use replacement flag currently used for power/hydro/nuke plants)
Create UUs that have certain Wonders as their prereq building.

Thus, you can dynamically choose what UU you want - and change it in game as long as you're willing to lose the ability to produce your former UU. As a wonder, it will be costly to replace so you have to be sure.

Ex. Find you're on a tiny island early on? build the Maritime Navigation Wonder to get Longship, an early cheap and fast caravel. Later on, when you're in a protracted war with Japan (who built Samurai Tradition to get Samurais), you may find you need a powerful defender to protect your cities. You build the Mercenary Guards Wonder which gives you Halberdiers (stronger pikemen) but lose the Maritime Navigation Wonder. Later on, do you build "Avro Arrow" wonder to get super figher-bombers or build the "Jihad" to get Mujahadeen Anti-Air Rocket troops for that extra edge?

[Willem]

Originally posted by Captain
Later on, do you build "Avro Arrow" wonder to get super figher-bombers or build the "Jihad" to get Mujahadeen Anti-Air Rocket troops for that extra edge?

No point in building the Avro Arrow wonder since you'd just have to dismantle it as soon as it was completed.

You must be a Canuck. Where's my Maple leaf smilie?

PS I like your idea BTW.

[Panag]

hi ,

there should be the ability in the editor to let only certain civ's this or that wonder , ....

have a nice day

[nato]

there should be the ability in the editor to let only certain civ's this or that wonder , ....

Maybe only civs with the militaristic trait could build the militaristic wonders, and so on... This would sharpen each trait. It would also definitely increase the value of some traits, especially religious I think. Probably not a great idea, just throwing it out there.

[Panag]

Originally posted by nato


Maybe only civs with the militaristic trait could build the militaristic wonders, and so on... This would sharpen each trait. It would also definitely increase the value of some traits, especially religious I think. Probably not a great idea, just throwing it out there.

hi ,

or just , wonder this , only that civ , wonder's so and so can be build only by civ delta and civ x-ray , ....

have a nice day

[Catt]

Originally posted by playshogi
Frankly, not only is the airport useless, but air units themselves are quite useless. I never build any. Artillery, with unlimited rail movement, are much more flexible.

I disagree. The airport is almost unbalancing it is so powerful in a modern war. Invading continents or islands without having discovered Flight is much more difficult than it is with the abilty to rush build an airport in a new city, and then airlift 5 / 10/ 15 / 20 units into the new city across the world from your home continent's cities (all have an airport, right ).

Originally posted by wrylachlan
Has anyone seen the AI go for the small wonder to build armies? If so that would prove that the AI is capable of understanding the need to complete a building in order to get to a unit.

I have seen the AI build the Military Academy -- I investigated a Roman city while planning an invasion. I cannot confirm that the AI actually built armies out of that city, but it did build the MA.

Catt

Edit: typo

[Willem]

Originally posted by Catt

I have seen the AI build the Military Academy -- I investigated a Roman city while planning an invasion. I cannot confirm that the AI actually built armies out of that city, but it did build the MI.

But Armies aren't a make or break unit, you can still wage war effectively without one. However, if the AI wasn't able to build Rifleman for instance, because it was to stupid to make a number of the buildings that produce them, it would be at a serious disadvantage. It might build one or two, but that wouldn't be enough to produce an effective military force.

And yes the AI will build Armies if it can, though probably not as effectively as the human. I had a game once where I saw the French with three of them converging on an Indian city. I had raised the limit to 10 units at that time, so it was a pretty formidable force. I was glad it was him and not me.

[planetfall]

Quick replies:

re #1- barracks, would be too severe anywhere before Modern Era. Only rationale for in modern era is training may be needed to run modern weapontry.

re #2- harbors. Actually best solution would be to keep as is but add city improvment ShipYards which would be needed to build any naval unit more advanced than frigate.

re #3- airports. Easiest solution might be to create a new improvement AirStation. An "air station" is a modern airport. An Air Station would be required to build/base any air unit above standard fighter/bomber. A spitfire could land anywhere but not an F-16 or stealth.

Real real frustrated with this type of thread. Firaxis seems to have no interest in improving balance between land/air/sea powers. Their only interest is land. I don't know if the root cause is either reprogramming difficulty, like the air range limit of 8 tiles, or lack of vision. Until I see something from Firaxis, I have learned to think of civ3 as a land based development game.

[candidgamera]

planetfall:

#1-3: pretty much agree. the shipyard I think of as a specialized factory.

share the frustration - thinking on Civ3 seems to proceed to a point and then stops.


Like the idea above on differentiated support costs.


Willem:
Hadn't tried the increased unit cost idea, thanks for the suggestion.

What cost/unit do you use? am thinking 2 maybe for republic, 3 for democracy?

Tried two things also to limit the massive zombie army:
only very few units given ai explore check box - doesn't seem to work in latter game, does some in the early game. And unchecked the "build often" on all units - this doesn't seem to work either in late game. Will try to make no one expansionist next.


Catt:
Somewhat agree on the airports.
A solution for airports of course would be a unit that works a little like the helicopter, but has unlimited range between airports only and can carry one unit - available with advanced flight. I limit what can be airlifted now to infantry, paras, marines, and modern armor (cant recall on tanks) - stuff that really is contempary with airlift.

[Panag]

Originally posted by Catt


I disagree. The airport is almost unbalancing it is so powerful in a modern war. Invading continents or islands without having discovered Flight is much more difficult than it is with the abilty to rush build an airport in a new city, and then airlift 5 / 10/ 15 / 20 units into the new city across the world from your home continent's cities (all have an airport, right ).



I have seen the AI build the Military Academy -- I investigated a Roman city while planning an invasion. I cannot confirm that the AI actually built armies out of that city, but it did build the MA.

Catt

Edit: typo

hi ,

just unflag the option "airlift" on some types of units , ....

have a nice day

[Willem]

Originally posted by candidgamera

Willem:
Hadn't tried the increased unit cost idea, thanks for the suggestion.

What cost/unit do you use? am thinking 2 maybe for republic, 3 for democracy?

I have 2 for both, since I figured otherwise there wouldn't be any benefit for switching to Democracy. The reduced corruption is probably not going to make a huge difference as far as revenue is concerned.

Another thing you can do is play with the number of free units per town, city etc. That won't effect Republic or Democracy at all, since they don't get any freebies, but it will with all the rest.

[candidgamera]

Willem:

Was thinking some also about variable free units per city too after last post. Am I to understand Republic, Democracy are hardcoded to not allow free units? Looks like you can change that in the editor to me.
Went and changed monarchy way down too, like 1/1/1.

If so I'm going to try this:

Republic:

0/1/1 for freebies, unit cost 2

Democracy:

0/1/2 for freebies, unit cost 3

idea is that later on expansion costs more, promotes taking care of and building what you have. expansion has to be subsidized until it starts to pay off. Democracy in big cities produces enough revenue for some extra revenue.

I allow republic a 1 military police also, none still for demo.

How well does unit cost 2 keep the units down? how many units wandering around?

OT:
Almost done with a game now, can't wait to try this and my carriers as amphib assault ships (think have figured it out: aircraft only, foot only flags, fighters with foot flag, no bombers) Marines with para range 2, suspect they still wont para off a carrier, but will try.

[Willem]

Originally posted by candidgamera
Willem:

Was thinking some also about variable free units per city too after last post. Am I to understand Republic, Democracy are hardcoded to not allow free units? Looks like you can change that in the editor to me.

No, you can change that. Just enter some numbers in the fields. I gave my Republic some free units, though not very many. I was trying to make it a bit different than Democracy, and I kept thinking about the Roman Republic.

[candidgamera]

Willem:

good to hear. was worried there for a moment. Am thinking to not over penalize on unit costs for defense, basic city development, just make it more expensive for the units on top of that. Maybe cut down too on the AI paving over everything with railroads and irrigation.
(Already only let hills and mts be mined, and require iron working to do the mine task).