What's the optimal use of depotism?

[V.O.C.'02]

Originally posted by Arrian
I've been warmongering lately, and my research path is:

bronze working
iron working
warrior code
masonry
horseback riding (at this point my neighbors become very unhappy)

-Arrian

I usually take the same route, depends on if you're going for the kill with a MW or a legionaire. I especially like the ancient game wars. do you build any (early) wonders (piramids) in the proces?

[Harovan]

Originally posted by V.O.C.'02
I usually take the same route...

Don't forget, that Arrian plays with Japan now and has The Wheel from beginning. If you plan to warmonger and are neither Japan nor have a bronze/iron related UU like the Zulus, Romans, or Persians, I suggest you to research The Wheel before all other techs. It gives not only the opportunity to prebuild cheap chariots, but also grants access to one of the most valuable (and often underestimated) resources of the game: Horses.

[DrSpike]

I don't see why players don't rush now. In earlier versions it was too powerful, admittedly, so some players opted not to use the feature. Then in 1.17 the penalties were severe enough to curtail most rushing, but now IMO it is reasonably balanced.

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by DrSpike
I don't see why players don't rush now. In earlier versions it was too powerful, admittedly, so some players opted not to use the feature. Then in 1.17 the penalties were severe enough to curtail most rushing, but now IMO it is reasonably balanced.

I consider myself a benevolent leader, but will pop-rush on occassion -- when the situation requires it. Generally, I find that in an emergency, I can pop-rush the temple without adverse effect. The people will accept a little bit of the whip for the common good.

[Inverse Icarus]

i pop rush my ass of, rather, i pop rush my people's asses off.

in most of my games, i stay a despot until i get communism. it really depends on the game, when i get monarchy or republic, i'm usually in the middle of a wonder race (sun tzu, or sistene), so i wont change unless i'm a religious civ.

other than that, i go despot -> communism because i love the pop rush . i may go republic if i want to be peaceful, but that doesnt happen too often.

[Arrian]

I generally don't like rushing in productive cities, because I don't consider 20 shields for a pop point & 20 turns of unhappiness to be a fair trade in those cities.

VOC'02,

Sir Ralph is indeed correct, that research path is Japan-dependent. I would otherwise research the wheel first. I use the Mongol Horde approach, with a few swordsmen as backup.

There is only one ancient wonder that I will invest shields in if I'm playing warmonger - the Colossus. If I have a solid coastal city early on, I'll take a shot at it, because it's relatively small and the benifits last a long time. Any other wonders depend on leaders.

-Arrian

[Cookie Monster]

Originally posted by Velociryx
Even with the modified pop-rushing rules, it's VERY attractive (esp. for Religious Civs) to pop-rush the h#ll out of stuff in the ancient era (I'm talking an average of 3-4 pops per city...one for the library, one for the temple, and two troops). Given that you should be able to use the troops rushed to secure at least one luxury source, and assuming you start near one other, it's more or less a push on the unhappiness and the result is a boost in culture, more troops more quickly (which means you capture more enemy cities and territory more quickly, etc., etc.)....and then, at or soon after you GET the tech for Republic, you're in a position to make the switch.

-=Vel=-

Are you using Civ3 patched up with either 1.17f or 1.21f. If so how do you handle the terrible hit on moral when using excessive pop rushing? From what I understand, although I could me totally off base , is that pop rushing was severly penalized with the advent of 1.17f patch. Any thoughts?

[MiloMilo]

HD: I believe that with 20 turns of penalty per rush, you can rush maybe three times before hitting the middle ages (and other gov't types), without compounding the penalty. Especially if you have a luxury or two around.

I rarely poprush, it makes me feel bad.

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by MiloMilo

I rarely poprush, it makes me feel bad.

Me too. But the people will understand a little discipline in an emergency; such as capturing an important city and pop-rushing the temple. I never pop-rush more than once per town, and rarely more than once or twice a game.

[chiefpaco]

Pop-rushing is pretty rare in my 1.21 games, since they changed the first citizen to 20 shields from 40. Here are the only times I use it:

- A town with plenty of population but only producing 1 shield is 19 turns away from an Improvement I want (usu. Temple or Library).
- Dire emergencies.

Why else would I use it? Here's why I wouldn't:

- A town making 2 or more shields could finish the thing in 10 turns or less.
- Sacrificing > 1 citizen makes > 1 citizen unhappy for longer. ex. sacrificing 2 citizens makes 2 unhappy for 20 turns, 1 unhappy for another 20 turns after that.

I wish they would re-instate the 40-shield first citizen. Or, get rid of the time-cumulative unhappiness. It would make pop-rushing attractive again to me.

To answer your question, I will switch to Monarchy ASAP in most of my games. There are a few cases where I hold off under Despotism to the Republic, if my Despotism wars are prolonged, or I want to play peaceful over the middle ages & I have some luxuries.

I found one case where I was better off under Despotism than Monarchy, because I started on a peninsula and had few towns but many units. My corruption centre was stretched, so Monarchy didn't help corruption-wise. Also, I had no fresh water and poor terrain so my towns could not grow past size 6. Because of Despotism's higher military support, I made more money under Despotism, so I switched back.

[DrSpike]

I think it is more balanced now. With 40 shields for 1st person despotism is attractive for far too long.

[Txurce]

In the ancient era, I only pop-rush temples when in disorder, or in captured cities.

I start by researching the wheel (warrior code if playing the Babs), follow up with horseback riding if playing the Iroquois, and then drop to 10% research set for monarchy, with an eye to buying iron working on the cheap for denial purposes. I start to research seriously again early in the middle ages, usually going up the less popular trees, and trading these techs along with the luxuries I've picked up via the ancient-era wars.

I usually switch to republic after my first round of wars if I have enough luxuries, and try to quickly make up for the economic hit with the increased production. If the wars never end - domination - I'll go to monarchy, with an occasional research stop in republic. If playing space race, my goal is to switch to democracy asap.

[YuMMz]

I usually hit Iron working then make a beeline for Monarchy. Then once in Monarchy stay until I control 1/2-2/3 the world and possibly switch to Communism. I never really pop-rush so the Paying to finish production works alot better for me. Especially since once you hit industrialization/communism you can usually get 200-300 gold/per turn for techs from civilizations. By the time I get Darwin's I am at 100% science and +600-800 gold per turn from other civs paying me off ;P. Monarchy rulez!

[Denday]

i love the pop rush option because i can go a long way away from my capital were theres heaps of corruption and hurry my stuff instead of waiting forever.
you can use this to get resouces or other things
i tend to stay into depostium untill im at feudlisum then i change to rebublic
somtimes i go to monarchy early if all my road networks are done
and i have a few happiness recouces

[DrSpike]

And it's DESPOTISM. Not depotism. Not depostism. Not depostium. Not deposism. Not despoticism. DESPOTISM.

Sorry.