What's the optimal use of depotism?

[V.O.C.'02]

Personnaly, I get to grow my cities pretty fast during (the beginning) of the game, so I think I stay in depotism pretty long, sometimes even into the industrial ages, I like depopulising my cities more then spending a lot of money on it, I'm not really a purist i guess

So my questionis, and i guess it depends on how much warmonger/ builder you are, how long do you guys stay in depotism?

[redstar1]

I'm probably more of a builder than a warmongerer but recently I've been discovering the benefits of early ware to gain a territorial advantage. I tend to stay in despotism only for as long as it takes to get Monarchy or the Republic. Maybe I cost myself a lot by changing govts before I am ready but it seems the sensible thing to do imho.

[Zachriel]

I usually try to have plenty of cash on hand. If I am religious I switch to the first available government, Monarchy or Republic. If I am not religious, I switch to Republic and usually stay there.

[Nym]

Despotism is more advantageous for warmongering, but, as a builder, I switch to Republic as soon as possible. For me it is the only way to keep on in tech race. Furthermore, each time I tried an early war (I mean before industrial age ) I lost it. I definitely am not a warmonger. So, the only ways to win I go for are diplomacy and space race.

[DrSpike]

For a builder game with some early war I don't think monarchy is worth stopping off at on the way to republic. This is definitely true for non-religious civs. For a more aggressive game Monarchy is probably your mid game govt, but the factor you need to balance is relatively small gains in food and production against quite a large increase in the amount of support you need to pay, at least until your cities are greater than size 6. Despotism isn't as bad as with civ2; the ability to use 1 pop point for 20 shields is the best early game method of combating corruption, and the support allowance is generous when you have lots of small cities.

[Velociryx]

Even with the modified pop-rushing rules, it's VERY attractive (esp. for Religious Civs) to pop-rush the h#ll out of stuff in the ancient era (I'm talking an average of 3-4 pops per city...one for the library, one for the temple, and two troops). Given that you should be able to use the troops rushed to secure at least one luxury source, and assuming you start near one other, it's more or less a push on the unhappiness and the result is a boost in culture, more troops more quickly (which means you capture more enemy cities and territory more quickly, etc., etc.)....and then, at or soon after you GET the tech for Republic, you're in a position to make the switch.

-=Vel=-

[punkbass2000]

Originally posted by Velociryx
Even with the modified pop-rushing rules, it's VERY attractive (esp. for Religious Civs) to pop-rush the h#ll out of stuff in the ancient era (I'm talking an average of 3-4 pops per city...one for the library, one for the temple, and two troops). Given that you should be able to use the troops rushed to secure at least one luxury source, and assuming you start near one other, it's more or less a push on the unhappiness and the result is a boost in culture, more troops more quickly (which means you capture more enemy cities and territory more quickly, etc., etc.)....and then, at or soon after you GET the tech for Republic, you're in a position to make the switch.

-=Vel=-

Good to see you back, Vel.

[Velociryx]

Thanks man...can't say that I'll be here toooooo too long....Candle'Bre is occupying almost every bit of time I can put together, but....the compulsion to head back to old and familiar stomping grounds was very strong today....

-=Vel=-

[Nym]

Originally posted by Velociryx
Even with the modified pop-rushing rules, it's VERY attractive (esp. for Religious Civs) to pop-rush the h#ll out of stuff in the ancient era (I'm talking an average of 3-4 pops per city...one for the library, one for the temple, and two troops). Given that you should be able to use the troops rushed to secure at least one luxury source, and assuming you start near one other, it's more or less a push on the unhappiness and the result is a boost in culture, more troops more quickly (which means you capture more enemy cities and territory more quickly, etc., etc.)....and then, at or soon after you GET the tech for Republic, you're in a position to make the switch.

-=Vel=-

No problem to manage the citizens' mood under Republic due to this pop-rush???

[Arrian]

I've been warmongering lately, and my research path is:

bronze working
iron working
warrior code
masonry
horseback riding (at this point my neighbors become very unhappy)

Then, I click on Monarchy. Once I get there, I switch. Once I'm done fighting my ancient wars, I switch again to Republic and build. I hoard gold as a despot, usually researching at 10% from horseback riding onward, because I can beat tech out of the AI. I usually only start heavy research in the middle ages, as a republic.

I only poprush in corrupt cities, and usually only then to punch out a temple. Many captured cities poprush a spearman, then a temple. That's it though. My core cities never poprush.

-Arrian

[Velociryx]

Nahhh...never had any problem with it. By the time my ancient era wars have ended and I'm ready to go republic, enough time has gone by that I'm out of the penalty box for at least one of the rushes, and I've usually got 3-4 luxuries anyway so I keep them mind numbingly happy and gently make them forget about their earlier mistreatment....

I should note too that my pop rushing is *entirely* offensive in its nature. Pop rush the library and temple not for the bonus effects they give me, but for more culture, more quickly (offensive in the sense that my borders will expand faster, and I have a better chance of absorbing other cities), and two *offensive* units. They can build their defensive unit(s) at their own pace later...my main goal is to get the essential elements in place and get troops in the field. After that, they're free to operate at their own pace.

-=Vel=-

[DrSpike]

I still rush a lot, but it is not the nobrainer it once was with all cities. Without granaries rushing often buys you little in productive core cities in 1.21.

[MiloMilo]

I stay in Despotism until:
1) A majority of my cities are size 7 or bigger; and
2) I have completed at least one wonder.

This is because I don't want to take a huge economy hit for switching, and I don't want to lose four precious turns of wonder production, especially in the ancient ages when it's questionable that I'll get any given wonder.

What this usually translates to is a switch to Monarchy sometime in the mid-middle ages. Once I have large economically vibrant cities and strong production under a Monarchy, I can properly race to all of the powerful late-middle ages wonders (Adam Smith's, Newton's, Magellan's, etc.)

Going straight to Republic has never really tempted me. For me the middle ages are very violent; all of the civs find each other and may or may not like each other, and I use my time under Monarchy to "round out" my empire, i.e. get a bit bigger and stronger, and get a foothold in all the terrain types that I missed in the expansion phase. Later, in the industrial age, I'll switch to Republic, shoot comfortably ahead in $ and tech, and limit myself to surgical wars with precise goals (take a wonder, take a luxury, take a few cities from one civ and give them to another, etc.)

Unfortunately that's when turns start to take a looong time, and I start to get bored, so by the modern age I'm back to Despotism, and back to 4000 BC.

[reefer addict]

i usually try to get currency first and build some markets in my bigger cities before leaving depotism. if i dont ive found my econmy comes crashing down. no cash means no research or military and that can get you dead fast. once there in place its republic for me for the rest of the game( unless im lucky enough to get a religious civ )

[Theseus]

Maybe I'm "suboptimal" by choice, Like Arrian. I don't poprush.

My view on Despotism?

Go to war. That's what it's good for.

That being said, Monarchy's even better... switch over, ASAP.