hidden racist agenda

[player1]

Originally posted by Assur
The Pals can go to hell for cheering and celebrating when thousands of people were dying in the WTC towers (and for blowing up teenagers and grandma's too)

Although it still possbile that that news was just fabricated war propaganda.

[August Borms]

Yeah, just like the moonlanding

[GeneralZosh]

Zylka?

Originally posted by Zylka
I agree...

Zylka..if that is your real pic....will you marry me?

[AJ Corp. The FAIR]

I don't like neo nazis

Don't you (international Apolyton posters) take offense out of Assur's postings:

his signature is signed : Vlaams Blok.

This signature referres to a fascist Belgian political fraction, a fraction that was/is in awe of Hitler and that none of the other fractions even wants to cooperate with ...

Assur, if you could think for yourself you should have realized that the Palestinian people 'cheering after the WTC debacle' were just fugitives in fugitive camps, meaning: no money, no prospects, no future whatsoever due to the non compliance by Israel to UN-commands and the support Israel gets for not listening to world opinion by the USA. I'm curious how you would react if you were in their shoes.

If you could die any moment (is that an exageration from the view of a Palestinian fugitive?), you would applaud too if you (although incorrectly) find your 'enemy' is being attacked.

Fugitives didn't get any education you know, they're dependant on feelings of the injustice that was inflicted on them. Right now they just hate Israel and the USA, wouldn't you from their point of view?

BTW, the reaction by certain Palestinian refugees is certainly non representative for the whole Palestininan people.

So Assur, 50 years ago you and your alikes hated the Jews.
Now the muslims should 'be terminated' I suppose?

Mind you fellow Apolyton posters, the 'Vlaams Blok' fraction is popular in certain cities of Belgium due to the 'own people first' and 'muslims must be transportated back to their mother country' slogans.

Assur (strangely chosen name though) definitely is a RACIST.

You're already polluating my country and my home city, please don't polluate these forums anymore.

AJ

[AJ Corp. The FAIR]

Originally posted by cyclotron7


No, I don't. What exactly is your point as it applies to this topic?

OK, its kind of off topic as I picked in on a remark of a fellow poster,

but my point is that words such as 'racist' and 'terrorist' are more and more used incorrectly and for political purposes.
There ARE dangerous terrorists of course, but the problem is that certain nations now are referring to whoever disagrees to their side of the story as 'racists' or 'terrorists'.

You just don't fool me, propagandists!

AJ

[AJ Corp. The FAIR]

Originally posted by Coracle


It is NOT exagerrated; it is 100% accurate.

To the Zionists, EVERY Palestinian is a "terrorist".

It's a shame, but:

it's very true.

I'm talking by own experiences that far too many zionist/religious orthodist Jews are very fundamentallistic in their views on Palestinians and muslims.

They're definitely co-responsible for the severe violence in that region (daring to settle more and more on Palestinian grounds, even when prohibited by international laws!).

AJ

[August Borms]

>Don't you (international Apolyton posters) take offense out of Assur's postings:

I seriously doubt that anyone who has visited the OT forum would be offended by my post

>his signature is signed : Vlaams Blok.

>This signature referres to a fascist Belgian political fraction, a fraction that was/is in awe of Hitler and that none of the other fractions even >wants to cooperate with ...

I think you're being a little hysterical here. In what way is the Vlaams Blok a fascist party? When have they ever been "in awe of Hitler"?

> If you could die any moment (is that an exageration from the view of a Palestinian fugitive?), you would applaud too if you (although >incorrectly) find your 'enemy' is being attacked.

If I were a Pal it would sadden me. Maybe you would be dancing in the streets but that's just me.

>Fugitives didn't get any education you know, they're dependant on feelings of the injustice that was inflicted on them. Right now they just hate Israel and the USA, wouldn't you from their point of view?

That is still no excuse to celebrate the death of thousands of innocent civilians.

>So Assur, 50 years ago you and your alikes hated the Jews.

And now it is you and your alikes that hate jews, burning down synagogues, Jewish shops and assaulting Jews on the streets.

Just like 64 years ago...

>Now the muslims should 'be terminated' I suppose?

You seem to put quite alot of words in my mouth...

>Mind you fellow Apolyton posters, the 'Vlaams Blok' fraction is popular in certain cities of Belgium due to the 'own people first' and 'muslims must be transportated back to their mother country' slogans.

Since when is 'muslims must be transportated back to their mother country' a VB slogan?!
They do want to deport criminal immigrants though - regardless of religion, this is done in Italy too IIRC.

>Assur (strangely chosen name though) definitely is a RACIST.

I don't believe any "race" is superior or that "race" has an effect on personality. Why am I a racist again?

>You're already polluating my country and my home city, please don't polluate these forums anymore

Antwerp 1/3

[AJ Corp. The FAIR]

Originally posted by Assur

Antwerp 1/3

That means that the other 2/3 still has brains Assur, and still is ...

WINNING !



AJ

[Andrew Cory]

Re: I don't like neo nazis

Originally posted by AJ Corp. The FAIR
If you could die any moment (is that an exageration from the view of a Palestinian fugitive?), you would applaud too if you (although incorrectly) find your 'enemy' is being attacked.

Fugitives didn't get any education you know, they're dependant on feelings of the injustice that was inflicted on them. Right now they just hate Israel and the USA, wouldn't you from their point of view?
AJ

Yep, 100% agree. Like I said at the time: If we woke up and found that Ossama bin Ladden's head had been presented to George Bush on a pike, would there not be chearing in American streets?

[August Borms]

Originally posted by AJ Corp. The FAIR


That means that the other 2/3 still has brains Assur, and still is ...

WINNING !



AJ

But that doesn't mean that those 2/3 are against the VB.
Infact, the majority is against the cordon sanitaire according to a GVA poll.

[bigvic]

This is looking kind of played out to me. Captain?! Captain, your ship has sprung a leak, I think.

[Captain]

Originally posted by bigvic


You seem like a real ok hombre, captain, so sorry if i sounded dismissive or harsh. I'm a member of that much reviled ethno-gender subgroup so often blamed for all the world's ills, white southern male.

sorry if it seemed like I was pointing the finger, that wasn't my intent. you've hit the nail on the head, there gets to be a point when the majority gets sick of being put through guilt and blame. the trouble is that point gets reached far before the minorities get to the point of belonging, acceptance, and equality.

I'm a democrat and a Buddhist. I lived in Latin America for a year and am currently getting divorced from a Latina, dating a Thai/African American (hopefully) and really don't think of myself as a racist.

no, I wouldn't say you are, anymore than ALL people are. (everyone has certain preferences, it's part of being human, and in that sense, it would be absurd to claim we're colour blind anymore than we could claim we're gender blind - still our aims are to move towards a state of mind where we can, as fatally idealistic as that is). i'd say most folks here are not racist consciously, but like all people, have certain biases that lead to see the world through particular views and be unaware of it. I definitely continue to struggle with it (for instance, recently learning that in certain non-western cultures making eye contact is considered disrespectful whereas here we think avoiding eye contact indicates dishonesty, innocent assumption but it is racist) but that's just a matter of awareness and being honest with ourselves. it's the large number of unrepentant racists out there that still disturbs me.

BTW, I hate running through the "this is why I say I'm not a racist" litany as I find it somewhat pretentious and, well, sort of compensatory when i hear others do the same. But , being a member of the ethnogender I am, unfortunately b/c of other's preconcieved notions (and my own South Carolina perverseness), I find myself having to defend my attitudes in this matter all too often. No prob. Not complaining. Life ain't fair, you know and no need to get bent out of shape, I tell myself.

true, I didn't intend a huge fuss. but i got very annoyed when told racism wasn't worth bothering about. you know, it only takes one experience with being suspected of getting a job because you're a visible minority to burn that into your mind. maybe you've even experience it too? it's in these cases, that we both lose out. we're really fighting for the same thing.

Anyway, what bothers me about this thread is that I really don't think oversensitive searching for shades of intolerance and racism is productive in the long run. for anyone. Members of dominant ethnogenders tend to weary and turn defensive, others get worked up, and energy spent on chasing ghost racism could be used dealing w/ the real deal, where found.

right. I just don't see it as oversensitive. it may not be an issue for some people, but it is for others. I don't think it's fair to dismiss it for someone else. if I don't find something important enough to talk about, then I don't say anything and I let those concerned be. check my post history, I try not to interject unless I'm interested. there's no need to be discouraging.

Faces do change over time. I see it everyday, even down here in the deep south. I teach at a school next to a military installation and see the true melting pot every day. Fact is, in the US, most "black" people are not really black at all, descended from europeans as well as native americans in addition to africans. Many people who we in the states look at and say "He/she's black" would not be seen as such in many parts of the world, since this idea of someone who looks even remotely African being "black" is a legacy of deep racism itself. As far as that goes, more white people here than might want to admit it (still) have african blood in them. In the old days, when being white was a definate preference socially speaking, if a very light skinned mulato could pass for white, what stopped hm/her from moving 200 miles away and assuming a new ethnic ID? Nothing. Then, throw in all the non "black" and "white" people who live and always have lived here, and racial distinctions become even more meaningless.
Take a walk from Scandinavia to the Congo, taking ferries, of course where needed. Is there a point where, on one side of a national border people are white, and on the other they are black? Try the same thing from England to China. Is there somewhere where all of a sudden race changes, poof!? Of course not. Take, for that matter a very light skinned american black, put him/her in between a blond fair skinned person and a very dark african, and ask skippy the alpha centaurian alien which "race" the light skinned american black belongs to. What would the alien say, lacking the culturally preconcieved notions many of us have?

you're right. the thing is, by the late game,everyone in my cities doesn't look like a NEW mixed type of person, they look exactly the same despite assimilating millions of foreigners (and supposing they intermarried, then they should look different. it was the fact that they look all the same that led me to the conclusion that we wiped out the descendents of foreign nationals)

[Captain]

Re: you know, i think you missed something

Originally posted by Whoha
You see, this isn't an issue, and theres a reason: the game straight jackets you into a game of raze the city. I myself havent seen a city assimilate foreigners because I burn them to the ground, and enslave the survivors. THAT is the fairly poorly hidden racist agenda, though I expect it will have changed, havent played since 1.17f.

you are correct!
razing is overly encouraged because garrisoning is too much trouble. totally in opposition to firaxis' stated aims of a less warlike game. (I should note that playing the good guy should be tougher as IRL.)

The uu concern is non issue, impis and mws are awesome hands down, and in multiplayer they will really shine. What better resource denier is there then the impi? or say, a stack of 10 of them. Also notice how england,france, and America get shafted into having crappy uus.

However, this, like the top one may just be poor game balance issues that will be resolved.

no, the type of uu isn't what I have a problem with, it's the predestination of saying certain civs are this way or that. i much prefer it to be based on where your civ finds itself concentrating its efforts. building a big navy? you get better ships with experience. building a lot of horsemen to cross the deserts, you get a bonus movement or whatever. in fact i would have absolutely no problem with uu's being assigned based on dynamic play style, instead of at the start of the game.

[Captain]

Originally posted by Thrawn05
Why did you play the race card Captain?

are you trying to bait me?
is this a genuine question not intended to insult everything I've written as merely playing the race card?

did you even read anything I wrote?
i tried to give my reasons there. if you still think it's playing a race card, instead of a genuine attempt to point something out and offer an alternative solution that would make some people happier with the atmosphere of the game, then fine. it's up to you to make such decisions. you can find something useful and positive, maybe learn a little from it and contribute your point of view to the discussion, or you can ignore it. but don't bait me. it works too often

[Captain]

Originally posted by Kamrat X
The mods must be sleeping But I guess as long as it don´t turn into a flame war Ming keeps his finger off the lock-button.

well, it was an on-topic discussion. we were talking about civ 3, it was a game concept of assimilation, and what it meant to different people.
I saw it one way, and found it in opposition to my beliefs. others saw it another way, and if I could see it the same way, I wouldn't have a problem with it. so maybe a graphic change would have been all that was necessary, even if it led to tokenism.
we got sidetracked, but i won't go into that. readerso fthe thread can see that for themselves, and so can the mods.
i think, though, at this point, we've gotten so sidetracked that we're no longer on topic.
so if the mods want to close this thread, I think now would be a good time.
besides, closing threads tends to attract more viewers, no?