Roads and rails

[java4me]

Originally posted by Captain
I've said it before, and I'll say it again, NO MORE INFINITE RAILROAD MOVEMENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I totally disagree, I think that when you get to modern times, you should deserve infinite movement. The only way I keep a strong modern country is to have infinite movement to keep my defenses up and to quickly get troops to my borders incase of an emergency kind of like it is today. Today troops get to certain locations around the country in no time at all!

[notyoueither]

You're too wordy Captain. Your posts have substance. They require a lot of thought. Let yourself go a little bit. You deserve an avatar.

[asleepathewheel]

When a turn equals a year, shouldn't that be enough to cross the country by rail. (ignoring the counter of air and sea power )

[notyoueither]

Yes, yes, yes. The time scale is whacked. However, somehow I think the CVA Nimitz goes a little further in a year than it does in Civ3.

The problem with infinite movement for infinite units is in play balance. Maybe they can balance it. One good way would be to limit the number of units that can use Rail movement in any given period of time (turn). Another would be to limit the distance a unit could go in any given period of time (turn). I favour the first option.

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by notyoueither
The problem with infinite movement for infinite units is in play balance. Maybe they can balance it. One good way would be to limit the number of units that can use Rail movement in any given period of time (turn). Another would be to limit the distance a unit could go in any given period of time (turn). I favour the first option.

How do you think they should be limited? Since in RL, it costs a lot to move material, they could put a cost on using the RRs-so like to move one tank anywhere on the rails would cost x# gold.

Or your idea of only having say, the abilty to move 50 units per turn, then the rest have to take to the streets would be good.

Either way, it could be balanced, I was just playing devils advocate.

(more futile postings )

[notyoueither]

I think that units moved by Rail should be limited to 1 for every 2 or 3 of your cites on a continent. Everyone else uses rails as roads.

Futile? Hardly. MP and PBEM in the Industrial and Modern eras will make or break on this and perhaps 1 or 2 other issues.

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by notyoueither
I think that units moved by Rail should be limited to 1 for every 2 or 3 of your cites on a continent. Everyone else uses rails as roads.

Futile? Hardly. MP and PBEM in the Industrial and Modern eras will make or break on this and perhaps 1 or 2 other issues.

My point about it being futile is just cynicism about Firaxis making such a change at this point in the game.

Now, i suppose you could come up with external rules with your opponent, if that's what your saying, and I would hope that the other player is trustworthy, though you would surely notice if a abnormal amount comes through.

[notyoueither]

Well. I suppose the play testers will tell them more than we can.

[Ethelred]

Originally posted by Captain
btw, it's strange but i joined a year ago and I'm still nowhere near 500 posts (despite coming here almost daily except for some time off), how does one get to 500 posts in 2 months?!?

By answering questions like this. Tuberski isn't that far ahead of me in the same time. Seven posts a day is what he has and I had the same till recently. I didn't even have to spam. Much.

[nato]

You're too wordy Captain. Your posts have substance. They require a lot of thought. Let yourself go a little bit. You deserve an avatar.

Just read this thread now, and I wanted to agree with NYE about Captain... you make some great posts!

[Inverse Icarus]

i really think that railroad movment should be infinate, but the unit moving on them uses all it's moves doing it. for example, you can move all you want on your own rails, but you cant LEAVE the rails, or ATTACK from the rails on that turn. basicalyl it's like having the units "on the train" for a turn before they can do anything.

[Captain]

Originally posted by nato


Just read this thread now, and I wanted to agree with NYE about Captain... you make some great posts!

thanks! I'm flattered...
actually, it's almost like a disease, once I get started, I tend to just keep rambling on and on... in my non-apolyton life I'm known for my excessive verbiage (often in a positive way but I've found that after a certain length, even the most interested listeners/readers drift elsewhere )

there are lots of folks around here who make excellent posts and their respect means a lot to me, thanks again nato and nye!

btw, no disrespect to those who post more often. I just don't have the discipline to break my posts up into shorter (probably more readable) chunks. you guys definitely deserve your avatars, I'm just slow.

[Captain]

edit: cut out section of previous post and put here, trying to make my posts more readable, less wordy - not being very successful, am I?

Originally posted by Captain

back on topic, yes, you folks have got the right idea. it isn't about how far it could travel in 1 turn=1 year, IRL, it's about play balance. reducing infinite mvt for ground will help boost sea and air transport. it will also prevent the civ 2 style RR howies into cities along a chain of unstoppable destruction. without infinite, we can actually use distance to do something strategically.

plenty of solutions, but hard to find something with not too much micromanagement and also feasible with minor changes to current system.

but here are some ideas:

build a locomotive (transports X) that works like a helo. needs to "rebase" in RR stations (either cities or tile improvements). so can go instantly to any RR station. (my preference). loco has mvt radius of any other station within 30 tiles (or something like that). this is my first choice.

build locomotive units, same as above, but no need for RR stations. travels only on rails.

uberkrux's great idea of mvt cost for going onto and off rails, but not along. good idea, not sure it solves RR howie exploit though

build RR stations as city improvements. units can move between any cities connected by tracks and stations. prevents RRing into most recently captured city.

alt: move only 3 units per RR stations (needs a separate counter, not hard, resets each turn to 3 * #RRstations = n, every time units moves on rails, subtract 1 from counter, but what if you stop moving, move another, and come back to the first unit?)

attach gold cost to cost to instantly transport units along rails

add 20 mvt to each unit on rails. (needs some way of tracking moves along rails)

change RR mvt to multiplier (easiest to do, non-ideal solution)

other suggestions?
asleepatthewheel, yes, I doubt firaxis will do any of these, i am just curious what others think might be a good solution

[Jon Shafer]

That might be a little complicated though. In case you haven't noticed, Civ III isn't exactly the... uh... most complex game ever, and something like that would certain be outside of the realm of civ-dom.

[alva]

Originally posted by asleepathewheel


Tuberski spammed his way up to 500.

doing this??


ot: i wouldn't mind if railroads had a very long range, but
infinite is too much IMHO.