Firaxis - Listen Please!!!

[Zachriel]

Re: Firaxis - Listen Please!!!

Originally posted by whosurdaddy
This is sooooooo extremely unrealistic, and what is going to happen in scenarios, when cities captured by the AI are wiped from the earth. How are we going to do that Crusades scenario when the Crusaders erase Jerusalem from the map immediately after capturing it?

Maybe you were meant the Romans razing Jerusalem. Or the Germanic tribes wiping Rome itself off the map.

Better have some defenders on hand. Not everyone plays Civ nice. (By the way, I never raze cities.)

[Zachriel]

Re: Re: Firaxis - Listen Please!!!

Originally posted by Zachriel
Better have some defenders on hand. Not everyone plays Civ nice. (By the way, I never raze cities.)

Just an additional note. I often encourage my brothers and sisters in the Civ community to avoid razing cities. It is inhumane to the little pixelated people living there, as well as unnecessary and unwise. But I have never questioned their power to do so.

[Capt Dizle]

Hmm, I have to eat my cereal now, but I will try to revisit this "scene of my crime" later when I have more time.

jt

[Hurricane]

Well, I definitely agree that the razing and "abandon city" options are much too easy. I never liked these features (like Zachriel, I very seldom - almost never - raze cities), but taking them out would be unrealistic, too. Making it impossible to raze cities with a certain number of culture would be silly, since it usually are particularly these cities you want to raze. Also, Carthage is a good example of a citiy with mucg culture being razed.

A better solution would be to only allow razing of cities under size 7. You could still raze a city within a few turns by starving it, but it would not be automatic and give some time for the enemy to get the city back.

Naturally, the abandon city option should be disabled too.

[Moonsinger]

Re: Firaxis - Listen Please!!!

Originally posted by whosurdaddy
I know i've brought this up for, but i just cant help it, it is still pissing me off, and i've never really gotten an answer. Firaxis, please include an ability to turn off the razing of cities in the next patch, or expansion, or something. I might leave a size 21 city which has been a part of my empire since 2000 BC undefended, an enemy cavalry will sneak into it and raze it to the ground in only 1 turn, despite the fact that I might have 20 tanks nearby which would be ready to retake it immediately.

I would give the AI a gold medal in this case. If I am the AI, I would do the same. Knowing that its impossible to capture and keep a size 21 city with only one cavalry (especially when I know you have 20 tanks nearby), it's best that I should burn it to the down so that you don't have it. It's as real as it can be.

[Zachriel]

Re: Re: Firaxis - Listen Please!!!

Originally posted by Moonsinger
I would give the AI a gold medal in this case. If I am the AI, I would do the same. Knowing that its impossible to capture and keep a size 21 city with only one cavalry (especially when I know you have 20 tanks nearby), it's best that I should burn it to the down so that you don't have it. It's as real as it can be.

In our army, we would courtmartial the general in charge of this humanitarian disaster. He'd be lucky to find a lawyer willing to defend his dereliction of duty. What was he thinking?!

[graeme]

A better solution would be to only allow razing of cities under size 7. You could still raze a city within a few turns by starving it, but it would not be automatic and give some time for the enemy to get the city back.

I think this is an excellent idea

This would add some balance so that on losing a city, whether due to leaving it undefended or not, the implications would not be so drastic. Which is what I interpreted as the point of the original complaint.

Also the progress of conquering armies would be slowed giving the potential for the defenders to reorganise themselves. And would require a bit more thinking on the part of the offensive troups if they also had to be able to hold a city at least for a few turns.

Of course one way to reduce the population would be to bombard the population down to below the threshold. But again it seems more sensible that a city can only be razed after it has been smashed to pieces for the last few turns.

Graeme

[graeme]

A better solution would be to only allow razing of cities under size 7. You could still raze a city within a few turns by starving it, but it would not be automatic and give some time for the enemy to get the city back.

I think this is an excellent idea

This would add some balance so that on losing a city, whether due to leaving it undefended or not, the implications would not be so drastic. Which is what I interpreted as the point of the original complaint.

Also the progress of conquering armies would be slowed giving the potential for the defenders to reorganise themselves. And would require a bit more thinking on the part of the offensive troups if they also had to be able to hold a city at least for a few turns.

Of course one way to reduce the population would be to bombard the population down to below the threshold. But again it seems more sensible that a city can only be razed after it has been smashed to pieces for the last few turns.

Graeme

[dunk]

I think you should only be able to "Abandon City" if size 1 or 2. I mean, where do all the people go?

[zulu9812]

Re: Firaxis - Listen Please!!!

Originally posted by whosurdaddy
I might leave a size 21 city which has been a part of my empire since 2000 BC undefended, an enemy cavalry will sneak into it and raze it to the ground in only 1 turn, despite the fact that I might have 20 tanks nearby which would be ready to retake it immediately.

This is sooooooo extremely unrealistic

Unrealistic? Really? What would you do if you captured an AI city and the AI had 20 of their tanks nearby ready to retake it immediately?

[Akka]

There is a very simple and elegant way to deal with that :
First, remove the "raze" option.
Now, you just have to allow to military units to use the "pillage" command on a city square. Each unit could "pillage" a number of population point, depending on it's attack or technological level.
Example : for each tech level (ancient => 1, modern => 4) or for each 4/5 attack points, a unit can reduce the population of the city by three pop points : one become a worker, two disappear (killed, fleeing the pillaging army, etc.).

This would allow :
- razing to the ground a city. To do so, you need either several units, either several turns. It give the opportunity for reinforcement to liberate the city.
- crushing opposition : I would suggest that each pillage will kill/make flee resisters first. On the other hand, it will make one citizen unhappy for each citizen killed/enslaved.

Several options could be added, like "can't be used under democracy" or limiting the use to the number of units that can actually be used as military police. Each pillaging of a city square could also hit your reputation.

[Icare]

Razing is a nice feature but I don't get how 1 archer unity can raze a big city that easily. Maybe razing could be adjusted to fit the size and the "modernity" of a city vs unity strengh? Might take several turns for 1 archer to raze a city of 15 while many thanks can do it in 1 turn....

[Immortal Wombat]

Wouldn't the best way be to open up the AI so that players can set to preference whether they want the AI to raze cities?
ie. Set it so they only raze before 1400AD or under size 8 or something.

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by Akka le Vil

Now, you just have to allow to military units to use the "pillage" command on a city square. Each unit could "pillage" a number of population point, depending on it's attack or technological level.
Example : for each tech level (ancient => 1, modern => 4) or for each 4/5 attack points, a unit can reduce the population of the city by three pop points : one become a worker, two disappear (killed, fleeing the pillaging army, etc.).

Good suggestion. Balance is good. It takes a while to kill millions of people and get rid of the bodies. Just ask Hitler.

[The Rook]

Originally posted by Zachriel


Good suggestion. Balance is good. It takes a while to kill millions of people and get rid of the bodies. Just ask Hitler.

I prefer the previous suggestion about not being able to raze a city above pop 7. That would work for me. The question is, will the AI be able to cope? Would it just not raze the city at all?