Which civs could be replaced by a worthier civ?

[notyoueither]

I won't vote to eliminate any.

For those of you who want to know what the lasting impact of the Iroquois is. I give you the names of the twin pillars of Western Civilization. Ottawa and Toronto (also rumoured to be the centre of the universe).

BTW. I could argue that Rome lasted until 1920 (or maybe beyond) but that thread already went 7 or 8 pages and I was only half finished. You don't want that now do you?

[Grrr]

We don't ?

[Ribannah]

Originally posted by Trevman
The Iroquois and Zulus are not civilizations. They are only large tribes that just barely managed to get out of the stone age. They don't have cities, militaries, or the scientific, philosophical, and social advances that define a civilization. What have they done? Nothing. To compare them with the Romans or even the Aztecs is a joke.

* Sigh *

There we go again. Don't you people ever read some history before you post such silliness?

[Harovan]

No replacement and hence no vote. But I would glad to see more civs added. More African and Asian cultures for instance, and also Southern American. And the Aboriginals. Spain is the only European nation I would add, certainly not Austria or the Netherlands. Although I would also accept to replace all European nations (and England, France, Germany and Russia are nations) by appropriate civilizations, such as a mediterranean civ like Greeks/Romans (that's the same), Celts, Germanics and Slavs.

[Jethro83]

Since I wouldn't replace the existing ones, I'd ADD the following into the game:

1. Spanish
2. Vikings
3. Celts
4. Arabs
5. Phoenicians/Carthaginians
6. Hebrews
7. Ottomon Turks
8. Indonesians
9. Mongols
10. Incas
11. Nubians
12. Aborigines

And to say that the Zulu and Iroquois aren't civilizations and that they barely made it out of the stone age is a bit narrow-minded... no offense. Don't you people ever get your facts straight before forming these opinions?

[siredgar]

May I ask what exactly the Indonesians and the Aborigines accomplished (besides being good "space fillers") that they deserve to be ahead of the Dutch, Portuguese, and Koreans. Even the Hebrews and Nubians seem questionable choices compared to these three civs that I have just listed. Thanks.

[Jethro83]

Originally posted by siredgar
May I ask what exactly the Indonesians and the Aborigines accomplished (besides being good "space fillers") that they deserve to be ahead of the Dutch, Portuguese, and Koreans. Even the Hebrews and Nubians seem questionable choices compared to these three civs that I have just listed. Thanks.

Whoa there. You want to see the Dutch, Portugese and Koreans in there. And that's Fine. But my belief differs. Please just live with it.

But the choices I made are just those who I would add to my own game. As I said before, Firaxis should only work on about four more civs, then release a stable editor that allows you to fill the remaining spaces. As Gramphos and Civ3Multitool have shown, THERE IS ROOM FOR 32 CIVS!!! Those are just the 12 I'd want in my game aside from the 16 already there, and the four Firaxis would add (though I don't doubt that some like the Spanish would be one of the four that Firaxis would add).

What did the Aborigines accomplish? Only 40 000 years of civilization, and a very rich culture that is still being observed today. Being Australian, I see much of it. So what else? Only a complete harmony with the land. While all other civilizations spread like viruses, consuming every available resource, the Aborigines learnt to maintain natural equilibrium with the land they lived in.

As for the Indonesians, there is a lot more history with them than you think. Much culture there that may have been lost when Islam swept through. Indonesian culture seems somewhat underrated. I've read things about it that only glances the surface and it is quite interesting.

The Hebrews created a religion that has influenced western society, and middle-eastern society as we know it. Would Judism exist without them? Would Islam have come to exist and revive ancient Greek lore during the middle ages without this Hebrew religion? Were it not for this, much ancient lore would be lost to us forever.

And as for the Nubians, they were quite a strong contender for lands in northern Africa who even clashed with the Egyptians for supremacy in that part of the world. Before the Egyptians defeated them, they held the richest gold fields in the ancient world.

As for the ones I didn't say...

Portugese and Dutch?! Isn't this game too Eurocentric as it is? Spain, Vikings and Celts are all the extra Europeans we need. They definitely made greater impact than the Portugese and Dutch. Time to move on to other cultural groups methinks.

Koreans... I haven't read into their history, so I couldn't use them in making a sound judgement of who I'd add.


I listed the ones that I find interesting. This is because I hold the fervent hope that Firaxis will let the choice of civs fall upon us, the gaming public. And if they let us create civs without having to hack civ3mod.bic with Civ3Multitool, then those are who I would add to my games.

Though I enjoy discussing history about a civilization, it shouldn't become "This civ should be here instead of that one." Its a worn out old argument that shouldn't be continued.

[notyoueither]

Eskimos should be there instead of Aborigines.

[Jethro83]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Eskimos should be there instead of Aborigines.

Oh yeah? And why's that?

[notyoueither]

Ice sculpture.

[Grrr]

Because Eskimos are worthy of mentioning. Aborigenes aren't.

[Jethro83]

Heh! Are you guys trying to test the extent of my patience? Well, I've got news... It will take a hell of a lot to kill off my patience.

BTW, how long have the eskimos existed?

[Ribannah]

Eskimo culture seems to be about 4,000 years old.

http://www.heritage.nf.ca/aboriginal/palaeo.html

With 12 extra slots I'd probably go for something like:

1. Anasazi (/Pueblo)
2. Arabia
3. Australia
4. Brazil
5. Dutch
6. Ethiopia
7. Mali
8. Maya
9. Mongolia
10. Polynesia (capital: Jakarta)
11. Tiahuanaco (/Inca)
12. Vikings

It's a tough choice. Eg Spain and Korea are also decent candidates.

[Ethelred]

Originally posted by LordAzreal
BTW, how long have the eskimos existed?

3000 years or so is guess I saw.

Australian Aborigines, assuming the oldest known find in Australia is ancestral goes back at least 62,000 years. Hows that for an old civ? However while the culture is definitly many tens of thousands years old they were never civilized. No cities, not ever.

[dunk]

Yay, the thread has become cool now. No more, "These jerks don't belong" crap. Well, for the most part its gone. And people are saying interesting things about people I've never learned diddly-poo about.

I would bet that the ability to add civs into the game won't be released with a patch. That's a XP feature if I ever saw one. I hope I'm wrong. I beleive SMAC did not have the ability to create civs, but SMAX did. Right?

I also wish that there was room for hundreds of civs. More civ-specific abilities too.