Artillery is strong enough

[Heartsurgeon]

Adding lethality to bombardments really unbalances the game IMO. As it is, artillery is the most devastating unit in the game, given how early you can acquire it. Cavalry and riflemen can just be ground to hamburger by artillery. I had about 20 of them in a warzone where 3 other civs were attacking me. Every turn they sent 8-12 cavalry, riders, riflemen, etc into the zone, and all I had to do was pound these units with the artillery. Then my own cavalry just went out and whipped all these units that had only 1-2 hit points left. Over the course of 5-6 turns, I lost a total of 2 units, while my opponents lost close to 50. I built some more and invaded them. Their cities had no prayer. Conquest was achieved before the industrial age was over.

The advantage of artillery obviously wanes in the modern age, but making the unit even more powerful would probably prevent a game from ever getting that far.

[Killazer]

Yeah

I agree for artillery and sea vs land, air vs land. I do think lethal bombard should be added for ship vs ship and air vs ship tho.

[Theseus]

As I'm often finding, I agree with Killazer.

I would add nukes though.

[notyoueither]

I agree with Killazer. Mostly.

I disagree with ship vs ship lethal. Ships already have a way of killing ships. Attack them. You win, or he does, one of you is going to the bottom.

If you add ship vs ship you are going to have to endure the occassional case of a stack of IronClads (or DDs) putting a BB to the bottom before the BB can respond. That would not be fun to hear about.

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by notyoueither
I agree with Killazer. Mostly.

I disagree with ship vs ship lethal. Ships already have a way of killing ships. Attack them. You win, or he does, one of you is going to the bottom.

If you add ship vs ship you are going to have to endure the occassional case of a stack of IronClads (or DDs) putting a BB to the bottom before the BB can respond. That would not be fun to hear about.

I agree. But I think if the movement and sight of modern ships was increased, it would be unlikely the ironclads could catch the BB unprepared.

[Akka]

I advise you to change the ROF of your artillery if you think it's becoming too powerful. As they gain the power to be lethal, they must be bring down in the amount of damage they inflict for each hit.

[Random Passerby]

The problem is that while artillery can decimate cavalry, what you really need at that stage is something to beat infantry. And there artillery tends to fail; twenty artillery at a minimum is needed to make a reasonable dent in a city with 10 hp worth of infantry guarding it.

Though still, I don't see any need for lethal land bombardment for just about any units.

[Killazer]

Yeah

Yeah..you all make good points. In terms of this game and the way it plays the current bombard system works. Lethal ship vs ship and air vs ship seems more realistic, but would prolly cause problems in gameplay like the ironclad vs battleship deal. Thing is tho if you have enough ironclads to bombard a BB down to 1 hit you prolly have the right to kill it outright anyway.

As for air vs ship... i dont know but cant a carrier in a fleet run air superiority to protect the ships vs bombers? If not then I guess you better not move your fleet close to an enemy city if lethal air vs ship bombard was put in.. might be a bit unbalanced.

I dunno im gonna have to play a couple more games and use fleets more. Its a sensitive issue =D Im sure about the no lethal land bombard tho.

[Thrawn05]

Before 1.21f, bombardment units of any kind were useless and a waste of shields. Any units that can't kill is junk IMHO. Before 1.21f, I just removed the bombardment values and insert my own Attack/Defend values to make them of some worth.


Just remember, it's off by default, and you can turn it on if you want. If you download a scenario that has that enabled, then just disable it. That's why it's in the editor. Complaining about other people enabling this feature, or just the site of it, is stupid IMHO.

As far as I can see, it doesn't unbalance the game, so long you make sure which units should be able to use it and which couldn't.

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by Thrawn05

As far as I can see, it doesn't unbalance the game, so long you make sure which units should be able to use it and which couldn't.

I don't agree with your interpretation of how bombard is used, but I'm curious. Does the AI use artillery properly in your mod?

[Capt Dizle]

If multiplayer is going to work, it is crucial that the game be balanced.

[notyoueither]

Air vs Ship is the whole reason I wanted lethal bombard to begin with. So I am happy to see it. Although without AA it goes a bit towards the imbalancing, I am looking forward to a Nimitz style of naval game in my next start.

I think I'll change a unit to Naval Air and leave it as the only lethal vs ship unit. Lower combat ratings than a fighter, but higher bombard. I don't want to be tempted (or able) to just use stacks of Bombers for coastal defence. Maybe I'll give lethal vs ships to Jet Fighters too. Oh well, I have a little time for debating.

[Coracle]

Catapults are too weak, though, and they should only be used against enemy towns and cities.

Ships before destroyers should never have the ability to destroy improvements by bombardment.

What we need is some sort of automated bombardment feature, along with stack bombardment to limit the tedium.

[Thrawn05]

Originally posted by Zachriel


I don't agree with your interpretation of how bombard is used, but I'm curious. Does the AI use artillery properly in your mod?

I listed which units get what in a thread I made a few days ago (page 2 now I think). From what I can tell, the AI seems to use bombardment units just the same as before (still sending them without escort, but mostly using them for city defense). I did up the costs of the bombard units that had lethal land, so as to prevent the AI to overuse them.

I don't mind losing units in my mod to these lethal bombard units. It makes the game more fun and challenging.

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by Thrawn05
It makes the game more fun and challenging.

That's the ticket!