Summaries of the chat

[Inverse Icarus]

but when it takes a company, i don't even know how long it's been sicne civ came out, lets just say 6 months for the sake of argument, when it takes a company six months to release a single player game that is remotely stable but is still realitvely unchallenging despite the hard coded cheats the AI so readily abuses, multiplayer is a neccessity. i decided to get civ3 anyway because i thought sid was a genius. his first two games ruled. i played civ 1 when i was only 10, and i played it for hours. civ2 was far better, and i played it even longer. i looked at CTP as a black mark on sid's regime, despite his "not being there". it tarnished the name of civ, and vicariously the name of sid himself.

when civ3 came out, i figured it would rule. i hoped it was everything i wanted, but i EXPECTED that it would be everything they TOLD ME it was. but it wasn't. maybe it will be some day. eventully.

(i'm becomming fond of saying that)

[notyoueither]

Aren't you being a little unreasonable KruX? You hold Sid responsible for CTP even though he didn't do it. Why not shoot Mark because cfc doesn't have an SMAC forum?

As for stable... I'm not sure what you are on about there. Civ3 has never crashed on my comp. I have never had a corrupt saved game. Then again I'm not hacking the game. Such is life, I guess my experience would be different if I did things differently.

As for challenging. Yes, if you put the time in you will find ways to beat any game, badly if you follow a certain path. You have found one of those paths. Rush, rush, rush, rush. Not everybody does that. Even when I try I find it hard to force myself not to build a little. My failing, I'm working on it.

Eventually that is a key term. Eventually the concerns of the MP crowd will be met. It's a royal pain that it is what it is. Look at the bright side. If MP were first and SP were neglected, I'd be flaming your chats. Isn't that a pleasant thought?

[Inverse Icarus]

ye sit is a plesant thought, because i wouldn't be the one telling firaxis how to do their jobs.

[Spiffor]

My brief summary of yesterday's chat :

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=47932

Only questions with a more intersting answer than "no comment" there (believe it or not, it's almost 20000 characters )

[player1]

I rember one thing.

BOMBARDING CHANCES WHEN ATTACKING CITIES?

Soren answered:
probably 50% unit, 25% buildings, 25% population
(it's chance to target unit or building, chace to hit depends from bombard & defense values)

[SpencerH]

Here's my summary.

1530 Finally prove to self that you cant add units with 1.21.

1545 Log onto java chat. About 30 people. UberKruX drooling over voodoo dolls.

1550 Ask about awareness of loack of unit addition -> no answer

1555 27 people log off. Was it something I said? Being a newbie to these chats I wonder if their connections have gone down

1610 decide to try IRC on other PC

1615 Download mIRC, load, log on to #Apolyton. Double log on (somehow) uses 2nd alias.

1620 disconnect from java

1625 scan text from IRC ->blurb, blurb, blurb-> "no comment"

Smoke emanates from ears

1630 Try to send question about unit addition-> no response

Am I connected? What the hells going on? Java is definitely better!

1635 observe message about java chat room

1640 disconnect from IRC

1645 Log onto java chat -> same three people including me

1650 Log off java, back onto IRC->blurb, blurb, blurb->

Hagbart "what about adding units (paraphrased)"
Firaxian -> "no comment"

Blood vessel explodes in eyeball. Flames shoot from top of head.

1655 Log onto #Apolytonpublic-> lots of people apparently waiting to send message to the Firaxians

1700 massive log-off

1701 Blow off steam on general forum with rant on general forum

1720 Gramphos posts modified copytool-> still pi$$ed-off, but somewhat mollified.

Could someone who actually knows how these things work tell me what happened connection-wise (yes I've read the read me).

[Inverse Icarus]

i think the soren voodoo doll worked, but i couldn't find a sombrero to finish the dan one

[alva]

Originally posted by notyoueither
alva848.

Yes. If Mark has a failing it is being too tolerant. But then, that's why I'm here and not on some other civ site. I like the 'freedom' of Poly, believe it or not. Some prefer cfc. To each his/her own. I'll take arguments with Lib over stifled debate any day. Believe it or not, I learned a bit from Lib.

Yes about the 1.21 theme, but the Firaxians were hand-cuffed from answering even the most basic extrapolative questions based on the state of the game as of 1.21. In the last chat they were game for at least a little speculation. Not in the least this time.

The MP thing... Kids will be kids... They want what they want, and they want it NOW.

on one hand i applaud Mark, i mean after all it is the "internet", takink on all it"s good and bad(sounds like wedding vowls, urghh :: )
but if people can't behave, one has has to interveen(sp!), act!

about learning more then 1.21, if they are handcuffed, what do you expected them to do,say
i can understand there position, (as they can see ours)
it's never someONE's fault.
we do expect a lot!
becarefull, original thought comming on!!! ,
it used to be (civ1 and early civ2) a case of programmers(ai) against user(s) (us) (meaning playing sp, no forums and maybe a strategie book after 6 months to a year!!)
now (civ3) it's them against a 100.000 players ( mp to the extreme )

i know for sure that if you(and by that i mean anyone) would never come these forums (apolyton, civfanatics, etc...) it would be much more enjoyable game, experiece!! . i.e. exploits,flaws,strategies, tactics. for us it's to easy now, we use the ai to ai trade (1.17) flaw in real life on these boards. they have no way to patch this, they have to deal with it regardless!!
gonna stop here

[notyoueither]

Beware cats in packs. Very difficult to herd...

[alva]

tiger, tiger burning bright
in the forests of the night.
what iIMMORTAL hand or eye
could frame they fearfull symmetry

[Tre976]

my god some people take the art of whining to a new level. NO MP? may have to pay for it? get over it.
dont like teh changes? dont liek the answers? act like a 12 yrd old child and throw a verbal tantrum.. nice.. effective and nice..
how about ya delete the game and attempt to do something more constructive with yer life.. like therapy

[Securion]

Originally posted by Tre976
my god some people take the art of whining to a new level. NO MP? may have to pay for it? get over it.
dont like teh changes? dont liek the answers? act like a 12 yrd old child and throw a verbal tantrum.. nice.. effective and nice..
how about ya delete the game and attempt to do something more constructive with yer life.. like therapy

... or Alpha Centauri...

Haha! SMAC/X still rules!

But hey, its ok, you just sit there and wait for this civ game to be done while im off to play some ubernice Alpha Centauri games. SP and MP.

Civ3 will rule in 1 or 2 years. Ill be back then.

[Grumbold]

I can understand Firaxis living under a non-disclosure agreement for discussing future stuff. Perhaps one of them should come and conclusively state that they can't talk about any new content at all, only questions about how the live code works will be accepted. Then we all know where we stand. Perhaps they've got a gagging order preventing them from discussing their non-disclosure agreement?

[SpencerH]

Why would they have a non-disclosure agreement? I'm not saying they dont, but why? Is some competitor gonna come out with an official editor before them?

The read-me came out wednesday, the patch came out late thursday (but apolyton was down part of the day), throw in some work time and you have a situation where there wasnt a chance to actually test the new patch. Therefore there weren't many questions about the patch that weren't "why cant we....", "wheres my MP?" , -> "No comment" type situations. I'm not privy to any planning of the chat, but it would have been better set up for a week after the patch release.

[MarkG]

spencer, i mailed a newsletter giving url's to download the patch and informing about the chat to 10000 people over 30 hours before the chat. something tells me that some of them did play with the patch for some time....