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I agree, the French are basically spineless. The were completely overrun in WWII, even with the help of the British. When the USA finally liberated them, they were not even fully cooperative. Even in recent years, they've been less than cooperative in the USA's efforts to stall terrorism and deal with people like Saddam Hussien. Not only are they military weaklings, they're unappreciative.
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Instead of just calling me ignorant why don't you try to diprove one of my points? Are you saying that the French would have been able to defeat the Germans in WWI without so much help from other countries? Are you trying to say that you believe it was good and just of the French to ignore their allies, the Czechs, instead of appeasing the Germans by letting them take it over? Do you believe that letting the Germans invade Poland, Norway, and Denmark and even trying to invade Germany was a good tactical decision? maybe you are the one who needs to start reading some more history books.Ah well, I suppose that's just a sad example of the kind of people who feed the "Americans = ignorants" myth. Well, I could try to argue against this trolling answer, but I think I probably just have to advise you to take a history book and start reading it. It will spare me much efforts, and bring you the warm feeling of discovering something new by yourself.Comment
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Hmmm... ah yes, the traditional civ-flaming thread... I'll stick to the topic and just say that I've seen the French rip apart the English in one of my games. They samshed city after city with longbowmen, attacking from high ground and with large numbers, even though the English had equivalent tech. Too bad their UU is worthless...Lime roots and treachery!
"Eventually you're left with a bunch of unmemorable posters like Cyclotron, pretending that they actually know anything about who they're debating pointless crap with." - Drake TungstenComment
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Re: French?
Ummm, right. I feel a bit dumb in even responding to this, but...Originally posted by danimal
The french are spineless cretins who got exactly what they deserved in both world wars...Imagine the Magineaux line...what a stupid strategy to protect themselves from the Nazis. Soldiers stopped marching into cannon and machine gun fire after ww1..why did the morons from france think it would be different?
The french are merde....and cowards.
I think Firaxis did a brilliant job placing them in pink to match their tutus and cowardice.
aurevior monsieur buttwipe
The maginoit line did _exactly_ what it was supposed to do, funnel the germans through belgium. What the French neglected to do was plan for stopping the Germans once they invaded Belgium...Do the Job
Remember the World Trade CenterComment
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Well I don't think France could have defeated Germany without help during WWI ... but neither could anyone else!Are you saying that the French would have been able to defeat the Germans in WWI without so much help from other countries?
That seems like a silly argument to me. You could just insert Britain, Russia, or America in place of France, like so:
'Are you saying that the British would have been able to defeat the Germans in WWI without so much help from other countries?'
No one could have ... so what?
This is a better point. Appeasement was of course wrong. The Phoney War was a very bad move (non-move actually) on the part of France and Britain. However at least they did draw the line at some point and actually declare war on Germany. If they were really cowardly they would have just let Poland fall without the DOW.Are you trying to say that you believe it was good and just of the French to ignore their allies, the Czechs, instead of appeasing the Germans by letting them take it over? Do you believe that letting the Germans invade Poland, Norway, and Denmark and even trying to invade Germany was a good tactical decision?
Just how I see it.Good = Love, Love = Good
Evil = Hate, Hate = EvilComment
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French?
Actually the French never thought Germany would invade Belgium because it was a neutral country. The Maginot Line was designed to stop the Germans from attacking like they did in WWI.Originally posted by Andrew Cory
The maginoit line did exactly what it was supposed to do, funnel the germans through belgium. What the French neglected to do was plan for stopping the Germans once they invaded Belgium...
Thus Endith the Lesson
KATNKATNComment
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Re: French?
That is actualy a debatable point, but kinda immaterial to the real point which is this: The maginot line worked perfectly. The germans loved it so much that they tried to copy it up and down the coast, and make "fortress Europe"...Originally posted by lorddread
Actually the French never thought Germany would invade Belgium because it was a neutral country. The Maginot Line was designed to stop the Germans from attacking like they did in WWI.
Thus Endith the Lesson
KATNDo the Job
Remember the World Trade CenterComment
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Fortress Europe
Actually the Fortress Europe was a good idea. The problem was by the time it was finished, there weren't enough men to staff it. A better use of the Maginot Line was in Italy during the penesula campaign. The Germans built 3 defensive maginot type defensive belts across Italy stalling the campaigns for about 8 months.Originally posted by Andrew Cory
That is actualy a debatable point, but kinda immaterial to the real point which is this: The maginot line worked perfectly. The germans loved it so much that they tried to copy it up and down the coast, and make "fortress Europe"...KATNComment
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Re: Fortress Europe
Right! Again, the maginot line was a good idea, the french failure to take full stratigic use of what they had built was not.Originally posted by lorddread
Actually the Fortress Europe was a good idea. The problem was by the time it was finished, there weren't enough men to staff it. A better use of the Maginot Line was in Italy during the penesula campaign. The Germans built 3 defensive maginot type defensive belts across Italy stalling the campaigns for about 8 months.
This began with a comment "Imagine the Magineaux line...what a stupid strategy to protect themselves from the Nazis. Soldiers stopped marching into cannon and machine gun fire after ww1..why did the morons from france think it would be different?", which is patently untrue. Had the germans walked into it, they would have been decimated. As it happens, they _did_ do somthing simmilar in Russia. And got minced...Do the Job
Remember the World Trade CenterComment
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Fortress Europe
The idea behind the Maginot Line was stupid at best. The French could not see Germany invading through Belgium, because of the Ardens Forrest. Since no one had ever successfully invaded through the forrest, they thought it was impenetrable.
Dumb, Dumb, Dumb
Should have read Sun TsuKATNComment
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Re: Fortress Europe
Did the line work? Well, to answer a rhetorical question with a historical one: did the germans attack it? No, they didn't, so yes, the line worked. Did the french fail to see the next obvious step; that the Germans would attack through belgium? Well, that is a matter of historical debate. And let's not forget england's role in all this; they fought with France, and gave up france in two weeks as well...Originally posted by lorddread
The idea behind the Maginot Line was stupid at best. The French could not see Germany invading through Belgium, because of the Ardens Forrest. Since no one had ever successfully invaded through the forrest, they thought it was impenetrable.
Dumb, Dumb, Dumb
Should have read Sun TsuDo the Job
Remember the World Trade CenterComment
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In the Game, I've seen a French AI completely dominate the others militarily on a number of occasions. In real life though..[cough]... hey, at least the French didn't get beat by Ethiopia. Remember, when discussing pathetic European militaries, Italy has to come first and foremost. At least France has had some military strength in the past 500 years. Italians have to go all the way back to Rome to find something that isn't embarrising."The great rule of conduct for us in regard to foreign nations is to have with them as little political connection as possible... It is our true policy to steer clear of permanent alliances with any portion of the foreign world, so far as we are now at liberty to do it." George Washington- September 19, 1796Comment
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You spell it maginoit..I spelll it magineaux
Any way you spell it...it ends up the same...LOSER
I will take the French Millitary seriously if they ever win a war on their own without the USA bailing them out...furthermore the french may fight more agressively if their women start shaving their legs and armpitsComment
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perhaps they should bomb a bunch of peasants back into the stone age as the americans did in vietnam or in afghanistan to convince you ???"Ceterum censeo Ben esse expellendum."Comment
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Re: Fortress Europe
This is wrong on so many levels.Originally posted by lorddread
The idea behind the Maginot Line was stupid at best. The French could not see Germany invading through Belgium, because of the Ardens Forrest. Since no one had ever successfully invaded through the forrest, they thought it was impenetrable.
Dumb, Dumb, Dumb
Should have read Sun Tsu
(1) The Maginot Line did exactly what it was supposed to do. It forced the Germans to go through Belgium and Holland to get at France. This meant that the French instantly gained two more allies, and guarenteed that Britian would also be involved. The German paratroopers and more importantly the air transport arm took extremely heavy losses on the assault on Holland, which had big effects on the rest of the war.
(2) The French planned for a German invasion of Belguim, it was the cornerstone of their whole strategy; advance to meet the Germans in Belgium, so that the war is fought there instead of being fought in (and devestating) France like in WWI
(3) The Ardennes sector. The French undermanned this sector because of the Meuse river immediately behind it. They figured that the Germans would have to pause once reaching the river for several days in order to move heavy artillery and supplies through the Ardennes, and that would buy them time to shift reserves from elsewhere.
What happened was that the Germans did not pause but started crossing imediately, using Stukas in place of that heavy artillery. And so the French plan came apart.
NOBODY, including the Germans themselves knew for sure that such close coordination was possible in 1940. The Germans gambled that it would work, and it did.
Had the Germans NOT been able to coordinate their forces, we'd be making fun of those dumb Germans that invaded France through a forest and over a river and got their asses kicked.
AustinComment
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