modifying the Nations

[Austin]

Originally posted by jinif


Instead of just calling me ignorant why don't you try to diprove one of my points? Are you saying that the French would have been able to defeat the Germans in WWI without so much help from other countries?

Neither could anybody else. The French carried the ball during the most crucial period of the war in 1914 when the Germans were closest to winning it.

Are you trying to say that you believe it was good and just of the French to ignore their allies, the Czechs, instead of appeasing the Germans by letting them take it over?

A large part of the responsibility for that lies not with France but with the even more spineless behavior of Britian. France initially tried taking a hard line with Germany during the twenties, even occupying the Rhineland twice, but they were always undercut by the Brits saying "oh the poor Germans, they are good little krauts now, we shouldn't be so hard on them", and so the French eventually gave up.

Britian didn't take off the tutu itself till 1939.

Do you believe that letting the Germans invade Poland, Norway, and Denmark

And what exactly the hell could they have done about it? They DID send a large force into Norway to try and stop the German invasion (a larger one than Britian sent) after the Royal Navy totally ****ed up by allowing the Germans there in the first place. Denmark surrendered so quick there was zero chance of helping them, and how exactly are they supposed to even reach Poland (hint, look at a map now and then).

and even trying to invade Germany was a good tactical decision? maybe you are the one who needs to start reading some more history books.

Invading Germany in 1939 or 1940 was simply not possible. I don't want to indundate the list with a lengthy post on the force mix involved, but suffice it to say that contrary to popular myth Germany actually had more of it's Welle I divisions (other than the panzers) in the West than facing Poland when the war started.

Austin

[Akka]

Re: Re: Fortress Europe

Originally posted by Austin
NOBODY, including the Germans themselves knew for sure that such close coordination was possible in 1940.

As a matter of fact, the "Blitzkrieg" that is such a famous "German invention" was described and recommanded in Vers l'armée de métier, a book wrote in 1934 by a certain general de Gaulle...

[Austin]

Re: Re: Re: Fortress Europe

Originally posted by Akka le Vil


As a matter of fact, the "Blitzkrieg" that is such a famous "German invention" was described and recommanded in Vers l'armée de métier, a book wrote in 1934 by a certain general de Gaulle...

Nice try, but Fuller and B.H. Liddel Hart in Britian, and Guderian in Germany had already beaten de Gaulle to this concept, and they had a much better grasp of it. The first nation post WWII to actually put together a mobile force and doctrine to use it was....Italy! Of course their equipment, senior officers, and organization totally sucked.

In the original editions of the book de Gaulle thought the only role of the airforce in modern war would be to lay smokescreens. He modified later editions of his book after his experiences with Stukas in 1940......his entire command got wiped out without ever actually seeing any German ground troops

The one who actually connected all the conceptual dots correctly, AND put together a force with the correct parts, AND succesfully led them into battle was Germany's Heinz Guderian.

France had a grasp of mobile warfare but didn't really understand it, which becomes glaringly obvious when you look at their tank designs. The Brits were much better, but they were STILL figuring out basic lessons in 1944 (five years into the war).

The Germans invented this concept and were the best at it throughout the war, one of the main reasons they were so hard to defeat even though their grand strategy and economic policies were almost laughably bad.

Austin

[nato]

I just finished rereading Speer's memoirs. In it, he mentioned that Hitler said he had read de Gaulle's book over and over. Hitler said this during the war in France.

All I could think of was poor Guderian and his Actung Panzer!

Just a little side note, not arguing one way or the other... doubt Hitler is a good reccomendation after all