Zylka’s 95 theses on why Civilization 3 is an utter disappointment.

[Ethelred]

Originally posted by Zylka
True.. although I do wonder what happened to ol' Iron.. did I get him locked away for good?

He got one more week than you did.

Two for you three for him. So maybe he well be back this Monday. I think he posts on CivFanatics as well though. Maybe he will stick with it.

[TCO]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse

I'm not a history expert, but I don't think bombers are historically responsible for too many ship kills, especially against larger ships like battleships and carriers

Good Lord. I'd go so far as to say the 90% of the capital ships sunk in WWII were lost as a result of bombing or torpedoing from the air.

sounds high. Submarines got lots of tonnage.

[TCO]

Originally posted by Coracle


Firaxis knows NOTHING about Military History.

I can think of only ONE battle where a battleship (not a battlecruiser, which were more lightly armored) was sunk by surface gunfire - Surigao Straight during the Leyte Gulf campaign in 1944. An old Japanese battleship was sunk by American BB's.

Warships get sunk by AIRPOWER; battleships almost exclusively by airpower.

BTW, the Bismarck was scuttled after being shelled. It was not sunk by gunfire.

grrr...look at my avatar...

[TCO]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Oh man. BucksRock, do some reading willya.

1. Infogrames is the publisher, not Firaxis. [My opinion now] The only option Firaxis would have had was whether to blow the dead line (and be in default of a contract with the publisher) or to brush it up enough before release and stick with it later (which they are doing). [/My opinion]

2. The guts of the development team were ripped out a while after the project was begun when Brian Reynolds and a bunch of *his guys* walked. That left Firaxis with the deal, but no team. [My opinion now] I think it's a small wonder (pun intended) that the final team created as decent a game as they did. And, again to their credit, they are not abandoning it. [/My opinion]

*One thing I take exception with is flaming the programmers.* This I agree with, only as I pointed out, Firaxis is in the camp of the programmers. Actually, it is the camp of the programmers, or whatever. As for the evils of publishers, ever heard of BattleCruiser3000?

The thread is very entertaining, although I disagree with many of Zylka's theses. Just call me catholic.

Please save us from the "evil publisher/noble developer myth". Firaxis was responsible for development. If they couldn't keep a team together, that's their fault.

[Dis]

this game is the best game ever released in the month of November 2001

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by GP


Please save us from the "evil publisher/noble developer myth". Firaxis was responsible for development. If they couldn't keep a team together, that's their fault.

Perhaps you'd prefer an evil developer story. Try CTP2.

[Grumbold]

CtP2 was abandoned by the suits in Activision, not the programming team that wrote it, so thats really another "evil publisher" story

[civman2000]

Originally posted by Zylka


"Could have been" suggests "could have been good, but it wasn't". Does it get any simpler?

Yes it does. It is not "could have been good", it's "Could have been great." Plus, as mentioned earlier, if you look at the posts, most people took it to mean "good but not great until it gets patched up some more"

[Zylka]

Shut up.

Thanks

[Zylka]

Originally posted by Dissident
this game is the best game ever released in the month of November 2001

ahaha I can agree on that one

[Tarquelne]

Originally posted by Zylka
Shut up.

That reminds me:

I guess I own you an apology for calling you a "fool." After being called a "patronizing worthless newbie." it just didn't occur to me that "fool" (in the ironic manner I intended - I know, my fault if it came accross as a direct insult, rather than an oblique one.) would make me pop up on the Mingapulco Air Defenese radar. Perhaps if I had refered to Z. as a "arrogant worthless snob" instead? No fear - I've learned my lession - personal insults should be hidden near the end of a longish post, not at the beginning of a short one.

I guess Z. spoke the truth about not responding to anyone's counterargumetns. (I don't mean to be insulting by calling Z. a liar... but many people do have the habit of posting on even after they've said they'll stop.) So, what are the last several messages about?..... Uh huh. It seems the 95 thesis discussion is all over but for the "*****ing and moaning." I guess its time for me to stop posting on the thread.

Really.

[Zylka]

I stopped responding a while ago... remember, when I said I was sick and tired of patronizing worthless newbies?

Oops! Just what am I doing right now?

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by GP


sounds high. Submarines got lots of tonnage.

Against BBs and a/c carriers? My understanding was that in WWII a sub had very little chance even against a destroyer.

[Tarquelne]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse


Against BBs and a/c carriers? My understanding was that in WWII a sub had very little chance even against a destroyer.

You might want to post that in the "Naval history and civ3 thread"

[KrazyHorse]

EDIT

never mind