I have a ghost!

[Dr Strangelove]

In my current game I conquered the last Japanese city some time ago. The Japanese civ remained for awhile, so I used the Civ3 Multitool to verify that there was one remaining galley. I hunted down and sank this galley, but the Japanese civ persists. I used the Civ3 Multitool again to verify that there were no remaining Japanese units. I'm still technically at war with them, and now the conquered Jaanese cities are getting in a huff about being at war with the motherland. The Japanese refuse to talk.
Is this a bug?
So what do I do now? Would it help to disband my captured Japanese workers?

[Argos65987]

Can you post a saved game? I'd like to check this one out

[Solver]

Yeah, post a save. If there are really no more units remaining, it's a bug.

IMO, a civ should be eradicated after losing all cities, no matter Settlers in Galleys.

BTW, what version of the game do you have? In 1.07f it's a known bug.

[Dr Strangelove]

The version is 1.17f. How do I post a saved game?

[KrazyHorse]

1) Save game
2) Attach file and post

[Harovan]

You may have to zip the file first, due to the 500 KB limit.

[Dr Strangelove]

OK, here goes nothing. Let me explain about the map. It's huge. The Japanese formerly occupied the continent on the far west of the map. There is one Japanese settler in the mountains on the east side of the continent. I placed him there using the Civ 3 Multitool to see if capturing him would force the computer to recognize the end of the Japanese, which it didn't. I've been waiting to see if he would convert into a city in the hopes that perhaps destroying the city would trick the computer into recognizing the demise of Japan, but he doesn't seem to want to settle down.

If this is a bug then it's not just a tiny annoyance. Eventually it will make the game unplayable.

Note that I modified the rules to allow a larger civilization, i.e., I greatly increased the optimum city number.

[Dr Strangelove]

Sooo, anyone got any ideas as to how I can terminate the phantom Japanese state?

[Solver]

OK now, where are the 6 guys that downloaded the save?

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by Solver
OK now, where are the 6 guys that downloaded the save?

Ha Ha! Just wait until their new Japanese subjects rise up and slaughter them in their beds. That will teach them.

[Solver]

Hehe,

[Ethelred]

Eventually it will make the game unplayable.

Eventually? The first thing I saw after loading was the Legendary never before seen Radar Artillery. Just launch the bloody Space Ship and quit worrying about ghosts. I promise they won't follow you to the Centauri system.

Huge map and only eight civs. On chietain level. Everyone is still there. What happened that made you try to pick on the Japanese? You left every one else alone. Well, not wiped them out anyway.

Oh I am not one of the Six that Solver asked about. I am #7 and I have Civ III and IE open to Apolyton at the same time. Checking and commenting at the same time.

Why the heck did you put the Japanese settler you created where it would never build a city? On mountains and hills. Right beside your territory, next to a cavalry unit, of a civ he is at war with! HE CAN'T BUILD. Not EVER under those conditions. The AI won't let any civ build where the Japanese will be taken over by culture as soon as it builds. That was added in the 1.16f patch because people were complaing about the AI making stupid builds. Now you want the Japanese to make REALLY stupid build.


I just captured that stupid settler you built. Now to see what happens. I disbanded the workers since the settler was fabricated. The Japanese did not snuff it. Oh well. Not a bad idea but that was the worst place you could have put that thing.

Considering that I actually saw a GOODY HUT there may have been someplace better. Certainly none worse.

Amazing a goody hut in 1852.

Saved game at that point so I could look at the save after the settler was gone.

Opening Gramphos' save game editor.

Looking at the cities

The editor crashed when I scrolled to London.

Again at New Grenoble. If I go to them directly though, they load so its a bug in the editor and not a corrupted save. May just be too many cities.

Got throught the rest. No hidden Japanese cities anyway.

Well after discovering what the filter is for I see there really aren't any Japanese units. However since you did mod this game with an editor who knows what may be messed up.

No of your enemies want to talk. I don't think you are well liked. Not exactly a suprise with that lead you have.

I just spent something close to forever just fortifying all your units. Why the hell does anyone want to play on a huge map. The vast majority of the complaining comes from people that insist on this sort of self-flaggelation. Like it's Firaxis' fault someone insists on dealing with a 400 to even a thousand units.

The game slows down because of questionable decisions by players in selecting a massively oversized map. Now the complaints about the editor are completely within reason.

Not that you were complaining about that. Just that is one of the most popular whines on the web about Civ III.

After that exercise in flogging the F key and Shift-A ing all the workers I set science to 10% because that was all that was needed to finish Smart Weapon. Raised luxuries to make things simpler with the war weariness.

END TURN

Well two turns of that silliness and I am through. No way I am flogging around with that bloated toad of a game anymore. They won't talk and they may never talk as they seem just a tad peeved. Perhaps you just started the war with the Egyptians and the Iroquois so maybe later they will talk. There is a minimum time.

I don't know what the problem is with the Japanese. I do know what to do.

Build the Appollo Program. Then build the Space ship. It won't take long unless you fall into anarchy which could happen soon. If that happens try Communism or at least move to a Republic so the government will last long enough to launch.

Better yet just stop. You have the game long won and the turns are exeeding long due to the oversized map and 400 plus units not counting the AI units.

Recommendations for future play. Besides the obvious of playing on smaller maps.

Don't build hospitals in towns that don't have a marketplace or even a cathedral. No wonder they rioted. Plenty of luxuries but they are being wasted because half the rioting towns were working on things other than the Marketplace that they desperatly needed. Market places amplify the effect of luxuries. Every city had every luxury and without a market place thats a mere eight happy faces. With one its twenty happy faces. None of the rioting cities would have done so if they had a market place. Some were even working on weapons and didn't have a library that could have expanded their borders.

Frankly I have no idea what you are trying to do in that game. It should have been over many turns ago.

Just build the bloody space ship. Then you won't have to worry about the ghost.

I am curious as to why it happened though. The game should have crashed when you took the ship with the settler. It does for everyone else. The only way I had heard of people dealing with it is to get one of the AI civs to sink it AND they couldn't actually observe the sinking. If they sank it the game crashed. If they watched the AI sink the ship the game crashed. When they moved their ship that was watching out of visual range the game went on and the civilization in question ended. No more ghost.

There is a chance if you wait long enough say five or ten turns without contacting any of the civs you are at war with that you will then be able to talk to them and end the war. Even Japan. A chance not a certainty. It appears that sometimes a civ will have decided that they will NEVER talk to you again. The Japanese may be one of those. They sure do like to stay furious even when they are at peace. Touchy civ. Don't like losing. Perhaps they should stop starting wars.

[Rimpy]

Originally posted by Ethelred
Why the hell does anyone want to play on a huge map. The vast majority of the complaining comes from people that insist on this sort of self-flaggelation. Like it's Firaxis' fault someone insists on dealing with a 400 to even a thousand units.

[...]

Well two turns of that silliness and I am through. No way I am flogging around with that bloated toad of a game anymore.

LMAO! Funny stuff.

Observations: I didn't torture myself for more than 30 seconds with this game, but I did notice a couple of things: (1) no Japanese units are listed by your spy in the military advisor screen; (2) although Japan is listed in the diplomacy dialogue box, it's mysteriously absent from your espionage dialogue box.

Conclusion: Your game is bugged.

Remedy: If you don't like bugs, then don't use mods and hacking tools. I'm surmising that you're using some mod because your corruption levels are extraordinarily low. If you're not, then please tell me your secret for dealing with corruption.

Rimpy

[Ethelred]

He said he increased the optimum number of cities. Thats in the regular editor. Helps with those with lots of cities but I don't know if it does much for the distance limit. Maybe they are related.

That seems to be a popular mod. Especially for warmongers. Builders don't need it. Then again neither do war mongers. They are just greedy. On a standard map for instance the sixteen cities you have before corruption becomes a handicap is more than enough for troop production. No AI civ can match a well tuned city for producition. Even without a nuclear power plant or manufacturing plant I can sometimes have two cities producing a unit of Modern Armour in one turn. Usually though its hard to get one that can do that. Lots of them though doing it in two turns. The AI never manages two turns.

I don't think I would want to play the game on huge map even with a super computer. Two many units to move.

Although I do want to play a game on Marlas map. I started one. I don't know if I will do anything with it though. I was just checking out the game. Sure is crowded in Europe.

[Arrian]

Ethelred,

I hope you either have a very fast computer or a lot of patience. Marla's map, while beautiful, is utterly huge, and slows down badly (at least on my computer). I played as China, on Monarch, just for the start location. I wanted space to build a solid empire. Heck, I didn't even fight until Cavalry, I was so busy building. By the early industrial age, there was a 45 minute wait between turns. I couldn't take it anymore. Good luck.

-Arrian