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Mad as Hell and Not going to Take it Anymore!

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  • Mad as Hell and Not going to Take it Anymore!

    You know, I think I've been had. I seem to have bought a graphical update of Civilization I. Phallanx vs. Battleship (or modern armor in this case) and all.

    I finally played this game that I got last year and came to the realization that Firaxis is a bunch of charlatans. Sid lost his touch and the fact that Brian Reynolds was not part of the project shows, BIG TIME. The total lack of insight and creativity is blatantly obvious.

    It's unmistakeable... there are tread marks on the cover. This game was rushed no doubt about it. What do we get to date? Piecemeal patches and not even one damned apology about the grand promises that were made and not kept.

    As I leaf through my CD Case I can count about nine or ten Civilization-style games and their clones. Civilization II is probably the most robust and replayable games among the whole lot. I have followed the creation of Civ 3 pretty closely and was initially excited when it came out. Then I realized that it had been hurried out the door by Firaxis. I will explain just what we (the civilization fans) are missing.

    Firstly, Civilization III is not created within a new engine. It is a highly modified Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri engine. SMAC had both multiplayer and scenarios to keep the game entertaining after the first one or two plays through. Civ III has neither. I can only wonder how both features got "lost" and where they are sitting in the Firaxis studio.

    Now I'm not going to give conjectures about how Firaxis and Infogrames may be planning to have the consumer pay $50 for these features in an expansion down the line. The game studio makes off like a bandit in that case, they can drop features to rush the game out faster and have consumers fork over the cash later.

    I won't even get started on how the "wonder movies" are basically a pseudonym for "insert movie here."

    But anyway. Civilization III is a fair dissapointment even in the gameplay department. I look at games like Call to Power 2 and SMAC, both of which really pushed the threshold in turned based strategy, and I realize that Civ3 is simply a rehash of old material.

    Why I bet with a couple of graphics tune-ups and renaming, you could relase a mod-pack for Civilization II and call it Civ 3.

    I'll admit that Civ3 represents the series well, and might even be fun to play, but one might as well get Civilization II for $30 less. The only major difference is one less way to win and a few graphical changes. Plus with civ2 you get a ploethera of scenarios and multiplayer options to enhance your civilization experience. It's still the same game, people!

    All of this high-praise for Civilization III might as well be praise for the genre in general. It's recycled gameplay. Nothing more. It's just in a new skin with a number of (important) features missing for the sake of corporate cash cow milking. SMAC and CTP2 raised the bar, Civ3 just points at the bar while laughing all the way to the bank.

    Anybody who is thinking of buying this game, I recommend you save your money and do one of two things:

    1) Buy Civilization II. It's the same game, with older graphics but with multiplayer and scenarios. Replayability factor is about a million fold greater.

    2) Wait for Infogrames/Firaxis (tweedle-dee and tweedle-dum) to release the "Civilization III Gold Edition" which will no doubt give you the privelege of shelling out $50 for Civ3 with the features it sliced for a Christmas season shipping date.

    And for those who think Civ3 is a good game as it stands: YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE MISSING. BUY CIV2.

    Those of you who already bought Civ3 and still give it high praise after this post, don't bother giving Firaxis piecmeal praise and half-hearted demands. They're obviously not listening.

    Just stop dilluding yourselves. Realize that Firaxis/Infogrames have taken your money and will take it again with the expansion. You have still yet to buy the game. Stop acting like you actually have it.

    Stop praising the Beta. Wait for the real game. Get some sun in the mean time.

  • #2
    have you tried any of the mods yet? they fix some of your complaints (especially about combat), and really do improve gameplay, though AI techwhoring has been something of a joykill for almost everyone

    though multiplayer is beyond our reach as of now

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    • #3
      I agree that Civ II is a much better game and it came out over 6 years ago! Alpha Centauri had many really good features, but I did not find the game as interesting as Civ II. That is probably because I can't see how "Polymorphic Software" can give me better military units. In Civ the upgrades make more sense.

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      • #4
        And for those who think Civ3 is a good game as it stands: YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE MISSING. BUY CIV2.
        I know perfectly well what I am missing by playing Civ 3, which is nothing. I have Civ II, and off the top of my head I can't think of anything I did in Civ 2 that I can't do in Civ 3 (save running over enemy civs with a bunch of howies, and what is so good about that?). I agree that SMAC does many things better, but I have NEVER been able to see how people can claim Civ 2 is better than Civ 3.

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        • #5
          GeneralTacticus

          i agree with you, while Civ2 does triumph over Civ3 in some gameplay areas, as a whole though Civ3 beats Civ2 on the gameplay side

          but on the other hand Civ2:MGE does have multiplayer and scenarios

          though gameplaywise i would consider civ3 and SMAC a draw, which is quite sad, and then SMAC does have multiplayer (though it does have a scenario editor it hardly useful, look at the number of SMAC scenarios compared to Civ2 scenarios)

          though SMAC certainly wins on player immersion while civ3 wins on graphics

          i would say buy SMAC instead of Civ3, but the AI in SMAC is totally inferior, which means that you'd be better off buying Civ3, or waiting till the expansion/gold edition then buying civ3, because out of all of the civ genre games, the only one that is still being patched is civ3, and it does have the possibility of an expansion pack

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          • #6
            Too far

            I think darthveda has taken his critisms too far.

            I agree that there are many disappointing aspects to civ3, too many good ideas left out, when they had already been implemented in earlier games. I agree that the combat system is in some ways inferior (but in some, superior), but Civ3 is not a worst game than civ2- it is different, in the way SMAC was different from civ2. Resources and culuture, small wonders, the new diplo screen (even if some vital concepts like real alliences were taken out) all make for a significantly different game that does have its charms. The lack of scenerios and multiplyer (though i don't care that much for this) do hamper the game, but once they come in (and Infogrames would have to be suicidal to keep these thigs out), civ3 will be a good game to play.

            Is civ3 what I wanted it to be? NO. Is it a bad game? NO.
            If you don't like reality, change it! me
            "Oh no! I am bested!" Drake
            "it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
            "Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard Shaw

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            • #7
              No one is forcing you to play the game. If you don't like it so much, sell your copy on E-Bay and suck up the $10 loss you just sold it at. For someone who feels so libral on voicing his (or her) complaint, try making your own game and making it better than Civ 3. It isn't easy. Appreciate what you have, some people have more serious and pressing issues in their lives than to complain about "computor games" on Civ 3 Discussion forums.

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              • #8
                i can see why DarthVeda is disappointed with civ3, but some of it can be overcame with one of the various mods, and there are many, personally i endorse the blitz mod but i am completely bias, The Balancer is coming along nicely and they are running a tight ship, LWC is quite popular, Player1 has a very conservative mod that should help some, then there are are number of mods that i am less familar with, and everyone seems to love sn00py's graphic mods

                and if combat is your #1 complaint, double, triple, or even quadruple hitpoints, and most of the crazy results will disappear

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                • #9
                  This is the same thread you have all read 1,000 times. Only the names are changed to protect the guilty.

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                  • #10
                    What I think is important for everyone under the age of 18 to think about is this:

                    Perhaps it's just not your taste in games. That's nobodies fault. It's hard for many teens to distinquish between "It Sucks!" and "It's not my kind of game". And let me substantiate this possibilty with the fact the game is back in the top 10 according to Gamespot:

                    GameSpot is the world's largest source for PS4, Xbox One, PS3, Xbox 360, Wii U, PS Vita, Wii PC, 3DS, PSP, DS, video game news, reviews, previews, trailers, walkthroughs, and more.


                    So anyway you're welcome. Now go live a productive life without Civilization III and scary Greek forums and be merry.
                    MOHonor - PJP

                    "Better ingredients make a better pizza" - Papa John

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                    • #11
                      What I really want to know -- is that Governor Jesse "The Mind" Ventura in your avatar, or Destro from G.I. Joe? Enquiring minds want to know!

                      Dan
                      Dan Magaha
                      Firaxis Games, Inc.
                      --------------------------

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                      • #12
                        Dan, you don't know who that is...wow! You must be suffering from a cultural gap or something.

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                        • #13
                          Is it one of the Backstreet Boys? I have to admit, I don't follow pop music very closely...


                          Dan
                          Dan Magaha
                          Firaxis Games, Inc.
                          --------------------------

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                          • #14
                            General Tacticus: I can't think of anything I did in Civ 2 that I can't do in Civ 3 (save running over enemy civs with a bunch of howies, and what is so good about that?)
                            I'm with the general on this one. I loved Civ 2, but the endgame, militarily, was a foregone conclusion. I would stack a bunch of howitzers and just run over the AI like they weren't there. Also the lack of real borders in Civ 2 used to drive me crazy, not to mention the constant micromanaging of the build queues, especially towards the endgame.

                            I could go through an entire game of Civ 2 and never build a single naval unit nor a caravan and still win. Naval power, at least on water maps, is very important this time around. The AI in Civ 2 was idiotic, but good for its time. I think the AI is so much better this time around. I actually see coordinated attacks on strategically important areas. The AI goes out of its way to bombard my resources.

                            The only wonder movie I miss is the one for Leonardo's Workshop. I dig the music for that one.

                            I know I don't speak for everyone on this, but I don't care about multiplayer. I mean, who has six months to play a game by e-mail. That's not my idea of fun. The scenarios will come with time, just like they did with Civ 2.

                            For me, and this is MHO, this is a fine installment of the Civ series and plays extremely well. I enjoy it far more than any of the previous versions. One or two more patches to iron out some of the small bugs will just about perfect this one.

                            I think all of this nostalgia for Civ 2, is just selective memories at work, but whatever, if you don't like the game, don't play it.
                            Last edited by MosesPresley; March 15, 2002, 01:00.
                            "In Italy for 30 years under the Borgias, they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed. But they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love. They had 500 years of democracy and peace. And what did that produce? The cuckoo clock."
                            —Orson Welles as Harry Lime

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                            • #15
                              You know, Civ3 isn't a terrible game. It can be fun to play, but the replay value, for me at least, is terribly low. It's not really a leap in technology, and without multiplayer or scenarios, there's nothing to really bring me back to play again. And the rest is just venting heat about how I hate add-ons that add features that should have been in the game to start with.

                              And for all interested parties, my avatar is William Bedford Diego, from System Shock 2. He is the captain of the Von Braun.

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