Mad as Hell and Not going to Take it Anymore!

[notyoueither]

Well, it's clear that many Grognards are disappointed at this point in time with the latest installment of civ. Not all, but many.

I guess I could be called a Grog-whatever, since I've been civin since numero 1. I find the current installment is not perfect, but I still enjoy it. I think War Weariness runs up far too quickly. and I hope that either they tone it down or give us a better understanding of its mechanics. One or the other will happen I am sure.

As I've said before, I am more than happy to allow the developers the opportunity to make the game *all that it can be.* I prefer to be involved in the process by playing and making suggestions from within, and I am having fun with the game now.

OTOH, I can understand that many will wait to see what the developers do before they invest much effort on the product. It comes down to personal preferences. To each his own.

Salve

[Kilroy_Alpha]

Originally posted by korn469
have you tried any of the mods yet? they fix some of your complaints (especially about combat), and really do improve gameplay, though AI techwhoring has been something of a joykill for almost everyone

though multiplayer is beyond our reach as of now

Would you say Call to Power 2 is an excellent game? Of course not, even though you can MAKE IT FUN by using the right mods. I loved playing modded civ2, but at no point did I feel I HAD to either make my own mod or use someone elses just to enjoy the game. It was plenty fun playing it right out of the box. Same goes for SMAC.

Now civ3, as far as myself and many others are concerned, is UNPLAYABLE out of the box. I have played one game of civ3 unmodded, and it was not fun at all. When people HAVE to change the rules of the game, just to feel that they are getting what they paid for, the game has failed. At least, in the case of CTP2, they had the foresite to make the game very, VERY moddable. Unfortunately Firaxis has not had the same wisdom.

And, I could give a damn what the public in general thinks of this game. That same public led Fox to believe that airing "Glutton Bowl" was a good idea. **** the public.

[Cookie Monster]

All I have to say is that when MOO3 comes out I will wait until I see an overwhelming majority of gamers praise the game in these forums before I buy it.

I bought Civ3 the day it came out. I bought the limited edition too......

Then after reading everyone's impression on the game I saw that for every one positive post there were at least 10 negative posts about this game. After weeding through the garbage I found that compared to my own assesments of the game I noticed something. I, like many others, was enjoying the game somewhat but noticed that something was just not right with Civ3. It lacked that "one more turn" feeling I had with the previous versions. Sure I wanted to keep playing but it was only to see the ending of the game. (I like to finish every game I buy at least once).

So in short, when someone promises that the latest version of game X is coming out and it will be awesome trust me......I'll wait to see what the general consensus is first. Then when the game drops in price to $19.99 I may consider buying it. I won't get burned again.....

[korn469]

Now civ3, as far as myself and many others are concerned, is UNPLAYABLE out of the box. I have played one game of civ3 unmodded, and it was not fun at all. When people HAVE to change the rules of the game, just to feel that they are getting what they paid for, the game has failed. At least, in the case of CTP2, they had the foresite to make the game very, VERY moddable. Unfortunately Firaxis has not had the same wisdom.

well did you get your money back? the last game that i thought was completely unplayable was SimCity3000, after two days of playing it i knew i would hate the game, and it wasn't even as fun as SimCity2000, so i took it back to Software Etc. exchanged it for SMAC and never looked back

i loved SC2k, and i hated SC3k, something wasn't right about it, they had lost the magic...i felt the same way about SC3k compared to SC2k as many of you feel about Civ3 compared to Civ2, however virtually all gamestores will let you exchang a game if you bring it back in less than a week, so if you hate Civ3, do what i did with SimCity3000, take it back and get another game and then write that game off

because all of you who think the game is flawed, and are hoping firaxis will take care of all of the issues, they won't, modders will go well beyond what firaxis will do, and even then they might not be able to make the game fun for you...while i'm sure that firaxis will fix bugs and will try to improve the gameplay some, they aren't going to totally overhaul civ3 in a patch, so if it is unplayable to you now, i doubt a patch will help, unless if it is one single issue that frustrates you

having said that though, even at full price, computer games are probably one of the best values for your entertainment dollar out there

you just need to find a game you like, wait till people you trust review it, and even then be prepared to exchange it if you don't like it

[Brutus66]

Wait for Infogrames/Firaxis (tweedle-dee and tweedle-dum) to release the "Civilization III Gold Edition" which will no doubt give you the privelege of shelling out $50 for Civ3 with the features it sliced for a Christmas season shipping date.

He scored a direct hit here. Kinda reminds me of what the Bismark did to the Hood.

try making your own game and making it better than Civ 3

Ridiculous comment, 1. Creating a good game takes a talented team a good long while. This guy just wanted to get what he thought he was buying, not empty promises.
I personally enjoy the game ok, but we play multiplayer games almost exlusively in our house on our lan. When I got Civ3 home and found it was single player only, it was essentially DOA as far as we were concerned. Sid's ears must have been burning that day...

[DarthVeda]

I reguard quality of the work over timeliness of the release.

[Jethro83]

While it is understandable to be somewhat disappointed about the negatives of the game, it seems that some positives are forgotten. But anyway, the main reason releases are rushed isn't entirely the developer's fault. The corporate bigwigs who publish and market the games are at fault.

They bump timeliness to the top of their priorities list because they will make more money off it if it is released at Christmas time. Any other time and they consider it a liability.

Like anyone who loves a good game, I value quality over timeliness, and it is a problem that games with great potential end up axed unless they are churned out immediately by Christmas time. Civ III isn't the only example of this brutal mutilation of the gaming industry.

Take Ultima Ascension for example. Back in 1999, EA threatened to axe all funding towards Ultima Ascension if it wasn't released at Christmas time. Even though Richard Garriott and his team at Origin needed more time to get it right, EA didn't care. They had waited half a decade for Ultima Ascension to be released. It was continually bumped back due to new hardware technology. EA didn't care that the game wasn't ready, they wanted it out at Christmas with no excuses. Of course, Ultima Ascension was so unfinished that the beautiful plot that the first eight games in the series were renowned for was brutally mutilated. None of the pieces fit in place anymore.

Perhaps a better known example was Sin. That game promised to be an innovator in the First-Person shooter genre. Unfortunately, the corporate bigwigs who had the power over its release rushed it for Christmas. What ended up on store shelves was a dismal effort that only scored 45% reviews in the top PC magazines. Even an expansion with all promised fixes couldn't fix it and it ended up as one of the cheapest games in the bargain bin within a matter of months (most games take years to get like that).

What I am saying is that the rushed release of Civ III is relatively minor compared to a lot of games rushed for a christmas release. Before bagging the brilliant effort of Civ III (considering of course the time constraints), just stop and think about other potential gaming gems that were ruined in this way. You'll know then that it could definitely be far worse.

[Jethro83]

Originally posted by DarthVeda
And for all interested parties, my avatar is William Bedford Diego, from System Shock 2. He is the captain of the Von Braun.

Indeed it is William Bedford Diego. But he is not the captain of the Von Braun. Anatoly Korenchkin was the captain of the Von Braun (the CEO of it if you will). Diego was the captain of the Rickenbacker, a destroyer that was piggybacking on the Von Braun using an elaborate (not really) umbilical system. The UNN were involved to ensure that things didn't go awry, although they failed to do that, and it cost a lot of crew their lives to the Many, a lot of other crew (including the CEO of the Von Braun) lost their individualities and humanity to the Many and the unnamed UNN soldier (the player) lost his humanity to SHODAN.

The Von Braun was owned exclusively by the Tri-Optimum Corporation. The Rickenbacker was a UNN military vessel.

Anyway, sorry for going off-topic. Something just needed correcting.

[DarthVeda]

Originally posted by LordAzreal


The Von Braun was owned exclusively by the Tri-Optimum Corporation. The Rickenbacker was a UNN military vessel.

Anyway, sorry for going off-topic. Something just needed correcting.

Yes you are indeed correct, that was a lapse of concentration on my part.

and....

"we are not Anatoly!"

[roalan]

Civ2 VS civ3

I find Civ3 to be OK in some ways better then 2 and other s not. What I did not like most about Civ2 was in order to win militarily you had to take every city on the map.I founfd that tedious and stupid. Also every country could produce tons of BB's Nukes stealth etc. At least in Civ 3 you can fix that. I do not like the corruption in Civ 3 and the hugh amount of cities you can build. But that also can be fixed. So I would say overall civ3 is better. Civ 4 will even be better and Civ12 will be perfect.at $50-75 bucks a shot (Civ 10-12 at $75) it will cost us over $600 for them to get it right.

[CapTVK]

Re: Civ2 VS civ3

Originally posted by roalan
I find Civ3 to be OK in some ways better then 2 and other s not. What I did not like most about Civ2 was in order to win militarily you had to take every city on the map.I founfd that tedious and stupid. Also every country could produce tons of BB's Nukes stealth etc. At least in Civ 3 you can fix that. I do not like the corruption in Civ 3 and the hugh amount of cities you can build. But that also can be fixed. So I would say overall civ3 is better. Civ 4 will even be better and Civ12 will be perfect.at $50-75 bucks a shot (Civ 10-12 at $75) it will cost us over $600 for them to get it right.

If money really is a problem you could help with playtesting Freeciv...

[Venger]

Yet another person comes to realize Civ3 will be the most forgettable title in the series...

Alas, wherefore art thou Civ4!?

Venger

[roalan]

Free Civ

What is this playtesting free Civ?
$ is no problem if the game is made correctly don't want to spend $50 ++ for another version of the same game. I am retired .

[korn469]

What is this playtesting free Civ?
$ is no problem if the game is made correctly don't want to spend $50 ++ for another version of the same game. I am retired

roalan

free civ is an open source project to recreate civ/civ2 possibly civ3 now, as the name implies it is free all you need is a download

you can find out more about it at

https://www.freeciv.org

[Coracle]

Originally posted by number6
I agree that Civ II is a much better game and it came out over 6 years ago! Alpha Centauri had many really good features, but I did not find the game as interesting as Civ II. That is probably because I can't see how "Polymorphic Software" can give me better military units. In Civ the upgrades make more sense.

Damn straight.

Civ 3 is a BETA version with us having paid to be playtesters. Nice racket you have, Firaxis.

I have no doubt in a few months many of us will be back playing Civ 2. At least with it we had a Cheat Mode and could make scenarios.