Are bombers and catapults usefull?

[Cookie Monster]

I use both units extensively.

Massed catapults and bombers are quite effective in damaging enemy units as well as taking out roads, mines, etc.

The only artillery you get in the ancient age is the catapult and if used correctly you can do damage allowing your ground forces to finish off the enemy.

Same deal with bombers. They can weaken enemy naval units and tear up improvements.

[Seghillian]

Re: Artillery units are great.

Originally posted by MonsterMan

It's all a matter of learning how to play. Firaxis weren't silly enough to have units that lacks a purpose...

You've not tried the English UU then?

[Spec]

Re: Re: Are bombers and catapults usefull?

Originally posted by Thrawn05


I don't think they are useful. I rather spend my shields on units that can kill, not damage. I would hope, (to make everyone happy), have a little checkbox in the editor that lets bombarding units kill units. Just a little checkbox. That's all.

Just a little... small... insignificant... pithy option.

I agree but the game would be so easy that way!! Bombers make to much damage and ground units can't kill them!
piece of cake!

Spec.

[Zachriel]

Re: Are bombers and catapults usefull?

Originally posted by Thrawn05
I don't think they are useful. I rather spend my shields on units that can kill, not damage. I would hope, (to make everyone happy), have a little checkbox in the editor that lets bombarding units kill units. Just a little checkbox. That's all.

Just a little... small... insignificant... pithy option.

I am certainly not against you being provided "just a little checkbox," however bombard doesn't normally destroy units. Even in the modern age with smart bombs, it takes foot soldiers to take and hold ground. In game terms, bombard works great.

In this position with Impis and Pikemen fortified on a hill, bombard was essential. The Impis make horsemen ineffective, and swordsmen are too weak. On the other hand, ten catapults backed by sword and pike worked quite nicely.

[Slax]

Perhaps a different approach is required. Instead of making 'bombard units' more powerful, they might be made more useful by having one or two more military city improvements which could be destroyed.

For example, If any size city could have walls, and they were destroyable (?) or if barracks gave a defensive bonus (or some other new improvement), then bombard units would be a more popular strategy.

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by Slax
Perhaps a different approach is required. Instead of making 'bombard units' more powerful, they might be made more useful by having one or two more military city improvements which could be destroyed.

For example, If any size city could have walls, and they were destroyable (?) or if barracks gave a defensive bonus (or some other new improvement), then bombard units would be a more popular strategy.

I usually bombard until the barracks and any walls are destroyed -- plus a little more for good measure.

[DrFell]

I'd rather spend my production on chariots and swordsmen (guaranteed to take out the enemy) rather than catapults.

[Hurricane]

Re: bombers & artillery

If you don´t need catapults & cannon it´s time to move to a higher difficulty.

One thing many of you might have missed is that lots of catapults=lots of leaders. Because your units rarely will die you will have a lots of elite units around greatly increasing the chance of obtaining leaders.

DrFell: chariots and swordsmen have serious trouble taking out a spearman fortified on hills. And if its behind walls you´ll need many of them.

Slax: What´s your point? You have always been able to destroy walls and barracks with bombardment. Quite easily, too.

[Zachriel]

Re: bombers & artillery

Originally posted by Hurricane
One thing many of you might have missed is that lots of catapults=lots of leaders. Because your units rarely will die you will have a lots of elite units around greatly increasing the chance of obtaining leaders.

Very good point!

[Pius Popprasch]

Re: Are bombers and catapults usefull?

Originally posted by Martinus Magnificus
Do you think bombers and catapults are usefull units?
Do you actually use bombers and catapults?
What do you use them for?
Are they worth the cost?
How could these units be improved in a patch/x-pack?

Two questions - two answers.
Bombers are useful and worth their price. although not a bargain. Micromanagement of a 10 Bomber attack is horrible, though.
Range is too short.
Catapults are toys at best. Even with improved stats(bombard 10) I don't build them. Artillery should have anti-stack effects. One shot - many units damaged. Bad for the AI Cavalry killer stacks.

In the last patch buildings got improved defense values which means that artillery has got even more worthless.

[AJ Corp. The FAIR]

swordsmen & catapults : vae victis

Since the latest 1.17 patch, I've changed my playing style a little bit.

Before I thought the Egyptians were strong (rel&ind): a fast UU from the start, upgradable to cavalry. Military focus, after building enough warriors for exploration and happiness upkeeping, was on building those cheap war chariots and upgrading them asap.
Now fast units aren 't that 'immortal' anymore ...

Right now, until the appearance of cavalry, better defensive and offensive qualities lay in the use of swordsmen & catapults (The ancient Romans actually used this form of combined tactics, eg 'Gladiator'). When being attacked, catapults usually take away one HP of the attacker, effectively improving the odds of the defender.

Building a good road network and fortresses on strategic locations (defensive bonuses, protection of sources and lux.), equipped with catapults and, preferrably, pikemen, will turn your empire in a very tough competitor (playing emperor). Everyone entering your empire unwanted can be attacked from distance first (ok, only 1 range bombard), where the poorer chances of hitting are well smoothened by a serious number of catapults: using roads and well positioned fortifications try reducing your adversaries HP's to the minimum before attacking them with swordsmen. Offensive use (bombarding cities and eventually destroying barracks) can't be underestimated, as mentioned in this thread before (also the upgrade 'trick' from warrior to swordsmen).

Use your catapults both off. and def. in combination with swordsmen/pikemen or better UU's, and after experiencing first successes start building up a reservist horsemen army: helping were needed, finishing off unguarded wounded and becoming your main offensive power with the introduction of cavalry.
Whenever possible, build enough catapults: they will prove usefull all the game until bombers replace artillery (farther distance bombing).


AJ

[Slax]

Re: Re: bombers & artillery

Originally posted by Hurricane

Slax: What´s your point? You have always been able to destroy walls and barracks with bombardment. Quite easily, too.

My point got a little muddled.

My point was that bombard units would be made more important if we had more improvements to bombard that when destroyed, immediately decreased the defensive ability of the city.

Only WALLS are like this now, and walls are hardly used.

(Not to say that I don't use bombard units - I'm just giving a method of increasing their importance)

[Random Passerby]

Walls are hardly used... by the PLAYER. The AI seems fond of plopping down walls on any city that isn't going to reach size 7 anytime soon, and many cities that would anyways.

[Martinus Magnificus]

Thanks for your comments. Maybe I'll have to revise my strategies. Untill now, I've used catapults, cannons and artillery only for defensive purposes, and I never build many. I don't build bombers at all, because I think spending the money on tanks (available at around the same time as bombers), especially modern tanks, is a better choise.
The bombard option is just to weak IMO. That's why I don't build many naval units either.

[Selkirk]

Bombers are very useful for destroying improvements on resource squares. I like to use little carrier/battleship groups to park near each oil & rubber to deny access.

In some cases you can bomb away all of the improvements around the opposing capitol and disrupt the computer's trading capacity.