more governments

[Nikolai]

This reminds me of The List! Goody, goody!

Ah, nostalgia...

I must say I like the ideas. The only thing is, that I doubt Firaxis will implement this, since they already have rejected the same suggestions from us earlier(The List)...

[Fresno]

Originally posted by steelehc
Other ideas...

Parliamentary Monarchy

How would such a thing work out?

[DrFell]

I think we're ok with the number of governments that we have right now. I would like to see some governments like monarchy and communism to be made more powerful. Perhaps by making monarchy a prequisite to getting to the next age and reducing corruption in it down to republic level, and by reducing corruption in communism a bit and changing despot rush unhappiness back down to 20 turns.

[Willem]

Originally posted by DrFell
I think we're ok with the number of governments that we have right now. I would like to see some governments like monarchy and communism to be made more powerful. Perhaps by making monarchy a prequisite to getting to the next age and reducing corruption in it down to republic level, and by reducing corruption in communism a bit and changing despot rush unhappiness back down to 20 turns.

No, we need at least one more. 3 of the civs have Despotism as their preferred gov, which to me isn't really a viable one for the Modern Era. I've added Dictatorship which I'm trying to turn into a modern form of Despotism. I haven't worked all the parameters yet.

[DrFell]

Originally posted by Willem


No, we need at least one more. 3 of the civs have Despotism as their preferred gov, which to me isn't really a viable one for the Modern Era. I've added Dictatorship which I'm trying to turn into a modern form of Despotism. I haven't worked all the parameters yet.

Hmm, perhaps communism could be distanced from despotism more (as it is it feels like modern despo) and a dictatorship government put in, which would still have centralised corruption unlike communism. Not sure about it's other attributes though.

[Willem]

Originally posted by DrFell


Hmm, perhaps communism could be distanced from despotism more (as it is it feels like modern despo) and a dictatorship government put in, which would still have centralised corruption unlike communism. Not sure about it's other attributes though.

Well first off it would have the tile restrictions lifted. That's one of the main reasons why Despotism isn't viable for the Modern Era. And it would also have the trade bonuses the Republic/Democracy does, but it would have much more corruption. Also more free units, though not as much as Communism, and a higher Draft rate, as well as military police. Plus low war weariness and forced labour. I've also lowered my worker rate to 1.

[Bill9999]

Re: State of Being

Originally posted by paulmagusnet

Propose the following:

Philosophical tracks, a short list:

Communitarian (the group is most important)
Romanticism (Reality can't be known, Logic fails, A=A and not A)
Libertarianism (the individual is most important)
Rationalist (Reality can be know, logic works, A=A)
Skepticism (I don't believe)
Nihilism (Kill them all)
Capitalism (Mine is mine, yours is yours, but we can trade)
Altruism (Mine is yours, yours is mine, lets have a give away)
etc.

What you pick affects you ability to choose or maintain a particular goverment type and how strong religion and science are in your sociaty.

A list of Religions including but not limited to:

Animistic
Voodoo
Panthiestic Rome/Greece
Buddist
Shinto
Hindi
Judism
Christianity: Orthodox, Roman, Protestant
Islam: Shia, Sunni

At a minimum, a religion gives you a group identity and possibly some advantages and conflicts.

Governments:

Anarchy
Tribal
Despotism (basically a monarchy without cultural support)
Fascism (quasi socialist/nationalism)
National Socialism (defacto socialism/racism)
Communism (dejure socialism/class hatred)
Democracy (mob rule)
Democratic Socialism (Weimar Republic)
Republic (Advanced mob rule)
Monarchy (quasi socialist/divinely justified)
Theocracy (quasi socialist/gods law-repression of other faiths)

Government Modifiers:

Philosophy
Constitution
Bureaucracy
Legal System
Federation
Empire
City-State
Communications/logistics

Corruption vs Happiness

WOW! Couldn't you just imagine an upgraded version of the social/economic model from SMAC based on these variables! For me, I'd be in heaven.

It would have to be pared down, of course, less the "common folk" would be confused and complain to Firaxis that the game was too complicated.

Bill9999

[DrFell]

Originally posted by Willem


Well first off it would have the tile restrictions lifted. That's one of the main reasons why Despotism isn't viable for the Modern Era. And it would also have the trade bonuses the Republic/Democracy does, but it would have much more corruption. Also more free units, though not as much as Communism, and a higher Draft rate, as well as military police. Plus low war weariness and forced labour. I've also lowered my worker rate to 1.

Sounds good, assuming it was all balanced correctly it sounds like an entertaining alternative to the other modern governments. I always wondered why they never seem to put a dictatorship type government into civ, guess it might be to do with political correctness issues, I hated the way the Axis in the civ2 ww2 scenario was under a 'republic'. It just didn't seem right.

[Willem]

Originally posted by DrFell


Sounds good, assuming it was all balanced correctly it sounds like an entertaining alternative to the other modern governments. I always wondered why they never seem to put a dictatorship type government into civ, guess it might be to do with political correctness issues, I hated the way the Axis in the civ2 ww2 scenario was under a 'republic'. It just didn't seem right.

Well I haven't had a chance to try it out yet, I'm redoing my whole mod and haven't even played with the new patch yet. I'm also thinking of a Socialist gov, as in Utopian Socialism. If I use the Communal corruption model, I could add the trade bonuses, which Communism doesn't have now, but have no free units, like in Democracy. I've also upped the unit costs in Republic and Democracy, though again I'm not sure yet how it will play out.

[facistdictator]

Willem your more racist than you think. Let me educate you a little, when someone assumes that a whole group of people on a certain forum or post belongs to a certain political organization, that they do not, that is racism!

Just because someone has a bad experience with a person of a certain color or religon does not give them the right to classify all people of that race or religon a certain way. And thats what he did when he said that's where the Hitler Youth hang out.

So Willem if you are a racist that's your problem but dont condone it on these forum's.

[Willem]

Well I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt, but after the first sentence I realized that you have nothing to say that would interest me. Good bye.

[Alinestra Covelia]

Something I thought was interesting was the curious monopoly on extra trade per square that the Republics and Democracy models had.

If some government types can generate extra trade arrows per square, then how about making other gov types able to generate extra food, or material resources?

An obvious example that springs to mind is Communism and its industrial focus. Perhaps we could have a tweak that allows Communist states to produce one extra shield icon for each square already producing one?

This would also have pollution side effects, which strikes me as being quite close to the grey and dreary picture that Maoist China and Stalinist Russia call up to mind...

I disagree with Civ2's No-corruption Communism model, but I don't think that levelling corruption throughout the empire is the answer. The corruption index should stay the same as with other government types (less near the center, more near the fringes).

However, the pop rush/no war weariness is quite accurate, and I think the double police duty of Civ2 would suffice.

Note: I don't have Civ3 yet but these are just my two blind-in-the-dark cents for the discussion.

[DrFell]

Hmm, I didn't see anything racist in any of your posts...

[Fresno]

Can't you guys just stop the fascism-discussion? Every intelligent poster knows fascism is an evil thing. It's pointless to try to convince those who don't see it. You won't convince eachother, just accept it.

Now back to the real discussion.

What I miss in civ2 is a primitive decentralist government instead of despotism. For example the Germanic and Celtic peoples had no emperor ruling them for a very long time. The same goes for example for the Iriquois. So what civ needs is some kind of tribal government as an early option.

[Jac de Molay]

WOW! Couldn't you just imagine an upgraded version of the social/economic model

My sentiment exactly. An expanded SE model should have been implemented since I think it reflects more accurately the true nature of world governments. The approach in Civ 3 is still too linear.