Have you or will you ever play CtP2

[exeter0]

Good call Changmai Beagle...

Although I am an Aussie so I don't get the joke on the Canadians!


I like both games too.. but I think we all had the expectation was that CIV3 would digest all of the great things in CTP2 and spit out CIV3 + CTP2 + 'a few more surprises'.

I think we got CIV 2.5 + a few moe surprise (elevated site, culture, animation & trade etc)


What I find disturbing in this debate is that the CIV3 biased are willing to bash CTP2 without really explaing why... pure emotive. Or have paradoxical criticisms like PW is a pain... (while surely there cannot be debate that managing hundreds of workers with the little unit management tools we have in CIV3 has to be a MUCH bigger pain).

On the other hand most people who lean towards CTP2 provide thought out comments and enumerate improvements over CIV3.

Don;t know what this means.. I just find it to be a very interesting observation. This is a good thread.

[Leonidas]

Re: Both

Originally posted by Changmai Beagle
I'm playing Civ3 now, but lurking on CTP2 - I'll likely be back looking at the scenarios being developed. The Alexander scenario showed there is a lot of scenario potential in CTP2. Combined with the work of Dale, IW, Hex, BO, WW, MG et al there has been development of a real working game.

Changmai Beagle: Yes that's how I started - I was reading the information about several of the major mods for CTP2 and it got me to thinking. . . so, I picked up the game real cheap and have been having fun trying out some of the mods.

Update:

I am currently playing CTP2 with the MedMod v2.0 and 28 civilizations. I added the "DiploMod v3.4" and the "FrenzyMod v1.04" within the current game. Everything works great, so these three mods work well together (although you have to install the FrenzyMod manually - very easy to do).

Basically, the DiploMod really fleshes out the diplomacy for all the AI's, giving them more realistic diplomatic dealings.

The FrenzyMod, as the name implies, really cranks up the AI aggressiveness (this is the same mod that is in the default Cradle Mod).

I installed both the Diplo and Frenzy mods during a current game, and there are no conflicts with them, and I have been able to continue my game.

Thus, the current game year is 1170 AD, and I have just eliminated another small civ, the Dutch. They had one single city remaining that plunged like a dagger into the ribs of my empire, so, using 2-12 unit armies, I "surgically" removed this blight. With all the defenses that a city in this game is capable of building, you need a lot of force and units to take a city. This Dutch city was a size 13 population with about 10 Phalanx/Bowmen defending. My first army attacked and was used to whittle down the defenders. Luckily, the Dutch had no catapults, or I would have been in a world of hurt.

I then retreated that first army (it was down to one unit out of its original twelve units), and then moved in with the second army to deliver the coup de grace. Sure enough, I took the city and the Dutch were eliminated.

It was at this point (after taking the Dutch city) that I installed both the Diplo and Frenzy Mods, and immediately noticed a difference. The AI is MORE aggressive.

I sent a slaver unit to steal some citizens from the Portugese, it got caught, and the Portugese immediately declared war on me. They have a huge empire and a strong navy, so this should be an interesting war.

Two things I need to watch out for:

1) build up a strong naval arm to counter the Portugese ships;

and

2) be careful about any alliances the Portugese might have. It would be very difficult taking on 2 or 3 civs at this point and still survive, especially with the FrenzyMod.

With 23 civilizations still in the game, I don't want to be ganged up on. Currently, I'm a strong middle power, but there are some very powerful civs (some of whom I have been trying to woo without much success) that could put a world of hurt on me if I damage my reputation too much.

Thus, my forces are preparing to go head-to-head with the Portugese Empire.

So let it be written, so let it be done. . .

[The Rusty Gamer]

Leonidas,

Where did you get Cradle 2.1 from? The version I've got is 1.3.

[Leonidas]

Originally posted by exeter0
Good call Changmai Beagle...

Although I am an Aussie so I don't get the joke on the Canadians!

exeter0: Thanks for your wise comments.

To your specific question: I think Changmai Beagle probably was implying that Canadians have a reputation for being moderate, of choosing the middle road rather than the extremes of one side over the other. Please correct me though, if I am wrong. . .

[Leonidas]

Originally posted by The Rusty Gamer
Leonidas,

Where did you get Cradle 2.1 from? The version I've got is 1.3.

The Rusty Gamer: LOL Thanks for catching that one. With all the mods, files etc that I have downloaded over the past few days for CTP2, I have inadvertently mixed up the version numbers.

You are VERY correct. The actual version of the Cradle Mod that I have is version 1.2.

Since you have version 1.3, your version is more up-to-date than mine.

So I think you know the next question I am about to ask:

Where did you get version 1.3?

[exeter0]

Thanx.. fence sitters in our speak.

I like it though... i think i'll use it!

[The Rusty Gamer]

Originally posted by Leonidas
Where did you get version 1.3?

Look in the CTP2 mods forum under the Cradle 1.2 thread. There's a link to the Hexagonia site which has a 1.3 version.

[Leonidas]

Thanks for your comments exeter0

The Ruster Gamer:

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.

After a little hunting I found v1.3 of the Cradle Mod. I also found the latest versions of the DiploMod, versions 3.5 and 3.6.

These and other files can be found here:

http://www.geocities.com/hexagonia/ctp2.html

[Leonidas]

The War with Portugal

I installed the latest version of DiploMod 3.5, to see if there were any changes/differences.

My initial plan against Portugal was to fortify my Mongel armies behind the walls of my cities and let the Portugese throw themselves against my formidable defenses.

But it didn't work out that way. Portugal seemed to employ some sort of disease or plague because my men in the closest city to the Portugese, Xanadu, started yelling in agony and died where they stood.

Not knowing what devious device the Portugese had employed, I had no choice but to take the battle TO THEM.

Against my better judgement I decided to send one army against the Portugese city of Funcho. I just couldn't wait for the reinforcements I was bringing up, because I had no idea if the Portugese were going to be sending that plague again. Anyway, better to die in battle, then to die of disease.

So I marched my proud 12 unit army of veterans of previous campaigns onto the plain and attacked Funcho in a frontal assault.

It was worse than I had expected. Funcho was fortified with every defensive improvement and bonuses you can have. My troops were cut down without mercy. Finally, I called the retreat and managed to escape with several mounted archers and all of my seige weapons. But it wan't pretty. Out of an army of twelve units, I left 7 dead on the Plains of Funcho. The Portugese suffered no loses. . .

Oh, the humanity!

Only the sight of the battleground after the Battle of Cannae or the devastation of Napoleon's retreat from Russia can compare to the carnage that filled the Plains of Funcho. . .

Resigned to taking that city (I couldn't wait around to be hit by more disease), I waited this time until all my reinforcements had arrived. This time I fielded two 12-unit armies, both comprised of the finest foot soldiers, mounted archers and seige weapons that the coin of the realm could purchase.

This time I was going to use the one-two punch: go in with one army, severely maul the defenders, retreat, then move in with the second army to deliver the winning blow.

So I issued the call to attack: the first army moved in and there was terrible carnage and frightful sounds as both armies locked in deadly combat. My losses were frightful, so I called retreat and what was left of this army limped away.

I then sent in my second reserve army, and they attacked with wild abandon as men fell on both sides. When these soldiers fell, others took their place. Many magnificent mounted archers fell on this day.

But this second army could not prevail, and so I ordered another retreat, and these brave soldiers made their way to the rear.

I was now in a desperate situation. I had only enough reserves and remnants from the previously defeated armies to put together one last 12-unit army. So I banded them together and sent them in against an implacable foe.

The battle was terrible, but somehow my men managed to find the last bit of strength and valour and defeated the defenders and took the city.

After such a terrible day, I chose to burn the city to the ground, and sold all of its inhabitants into slavery. The Battle of Funcho was over.

But my losses were staggering: my once proud military force was decimated. There was not a single home in the towns or cities throughout the Mongel Empire that did not feel the loss of fallen sons. . .

"Varus! Give me back my legions. . ."

In other developments, my north-eastern naval force engaged the Portugese Navy in the Battle of Ulan Bator. After a bloody battle my navy was defeated and the Portugese made good their escape.

To counter the Portugese naval threat I am moving my southern naval task force northward. I have also ordered my naval yards to build a new type of naval vessel that should be more than a match for the Portugese ships.

The total tally so far:

Portugese Losses: Men - 12; Ships - 3; Cities - one

Mongel Losses: Men - 31; Ships - 4

I will now have to re-group and consider my military options. Clearly, I will have to re-build my military forces and navy. I will also try to form a military alliance with another Civ or two.

In the meantime, I will press ahead in tech development and find out what the heck the Portugese were using against me. . .

[The Rusty Gamer]

There was no I like both games option. Can't vote therefore.

[Harovan]

Ain't it time to move this thread in the CtP2 forum? This whole poll is IMHO nothing but .

I gave CtP2 a fair chance, and reinstalled and played it in the last 2 evenings, with the Cradle 1.2 mod. I got it running, though it looks awful, in 2 languages, almost unreadable. Here are my impressions:

The AI has not much changed, sorry, but it is still incredibly dumb. I started a "hard" game, all else standard. I have stacks of 3 barbarians fleeing from my one wounded slinger, I have other civs declaring war but not attacking, I have move delays of up to 3 minutes (heavily varies) in 6000BC, and the interface is not much better than the one in Civ3. After playing Civ3 for 3 months, even with the pre-patch problems, I was surprised, that there can be an ancient era without any adrenaline kick. Early game tedium. Settlers, or nomads to be precise, to be build in 40-50 turns (10-15 in Civ3). Compared with Civ3 and it's aggressive AI, it was boring. The diplomacy has a lot of options, most of which are useless, because the AI does care still less about treaties than in Civ3. Trade has a great interface (compared with the poor one in Civ3), but it's not worth the efford due to piracy. The maps are ugly, compared with those in Civ3 (I'm not talking about graphics but geographical correctness). Intro and wonder movies are nice, but I skip them anyway. Public works have the huge disadvantage, that you can't rush a project by putting more work force in it (i.e. more workers). There is no opportunity to take influence to a city's food/production/gold output by moving citizens to other tiles. War seems to be the only solution to solve diplomatic problems, and the only option to save me from the tedium. But it's not a wargame.

Please don't think that I want to rant about CtP2 or put it down. I played and enjoyed it about 8 months last year. I reinstalled it now, patched and modded it, just to check how I would like it after my experiences with Civ3. I think, this was the reason of this thread.

It was disappointing.

[Immortal Wombat]

Please God let this thread sink!

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
Ain't it time to move this thread in the CtP2 forum? This whole poll is IMHO nothing but .

Spam it ain't, but in the CtP2 forum what would be the point?

I gave CtP2 a fair chance: It was disappointing.

Thankyou for at least thinking about it

[Grumbold]

Originally posted by exeter0
What I find disturbing in this debate is that the CIV3 biased are willing to bash CTP2 without really explaing why... pure emotive. Or have paradoxical criticisms like PW is a pain... (while surely there cannot be debate that managing hundreds of workers with the little unit management tools we have in CIV3 has to be a MUCH bigger pain).

Workers vs PW is one of the debates that will never be resolved. All the Apolyton polls I've seen have always come out no more than 55/45 in favour of either system. They both have their good and bad points but this isn't the thread to rehash them in

[The Rusty Gamer]

Wouldn't it be good to have an option in Civ 3 to play it either with or without PW? Or to somehow be able to mod it?

[Grumbold]

I think too many systems are geared to workers in Civ III. They don't just do the improvements but represent prisoners and ways of moving population of different cultures.