What's the deal with Cheaters?

[Salvor]

Originally posted by facistdictator
I'm on this forum in the name of freedom

Actually, you're on this forum in the name of 'facistdictator' [sic].

Originally posted by facistdictator
and not trying to throw my personal views about cheating to everyone else.

So if they're not your views, whose views are they?

Originally posted by facistdictator
I'll impose my will upon you please remove it

Originally posted by Willem
if you want people to take you seriously, I'd suggest you get rid of that moniker at the bottom of your post

Notice any difference in tone between the above two quotes? Which one speaks more to the "name of freedom"?

[Andrew Cory]

Originally posted by Salvor
Fascistdictator, are you one of the ones who can't figure out why the rest of the world thinks we're arrogant, self-righteous, and narrow-minded?

I know you have every right to be just as arrogant, self-righteous, and narrow-minded as you want, but when you do it so loudly, it causes problems for those of us who like to travel overseas without being ashamed of our countrymen and trying to disguise ourselves as Canadians.

Ah-HA! I knew that the ugly American thing was a bit overblown. Perhaps if you represented your true country when you traveled abroad, it would change the general perception of Americans...

Of course, (granting that we Americans really _are_ arrogent, a lot of the dislike of America comes from the fact of our power, not what we do with it.

Oh, and Lib, climb down. Cheaters always cheat themselves. The thing is that with computer games, they _only_ cheat themselves, and with other games (eg golf) they cheat themselves + others. Hence, the "only". This is not a devaluation of the self, but actualy stating a difference in kind + a difference of degree. You might have a point if we are discusing whether it is better to cheat yourself _or_ someone else. Might, I say, I won't take a position on that yet...

Not, you understand that FD's comments were at all apropriate.

[Seghillian]

Originally posted by Libertarian
In my opinion, a man who cheats himself cheats the most important person in the world.

Yes But.

"Cheating" in a SP computer game is not cheating in the usual sense of the word. You cannot cheat in SP. You can cheat in tournaments, you can cheat in multiplayer and that IS reprehensible.

In single player, I play MY game the way I want to play it. Sometimes I want the challenge of Iron Man and I'll play to win and sometimes I'll lose. Sometimes I just want to play in a fun way so I'll start my stone age tribe with some modern units and try to clean up BC. If anyone is telling me I'm less of a person for doing that - then I would say that person is not very - erm - libertarian.

If I'm playing "for real" I'll play properly because I want to test myself against the game. I might lose but the game might have reached an interesting stage. So I chalk that up in my own mind as a loss - but hey - lets reload that last battle - and see how the end game looks. And that is "cheating"???? Of course it's not. Those new units have just come into the game - I wanna see how they work before I start in the stone age again. I've got nothing to prove to anybody, but I'm gonna reload and see how the modern era plays.

I'm a libertarian myself. If you want to play Iron Man all the time I'll say good luck and enjoy your game. Play your game the way you want - it's your money and your time - who am I to tell you how to play your game? And I'll be happy if you permit me the same freedom. I don't submit GOTM's, I don't brag about my scores, so I'm not cheating anybody.

You can only cheat in stuff like GOTM or multiplayer when it arrives. The only way to cheat yourself in SP is to play in a way that you are not enjoying yourself. This is a leisure pursuit, after all.

[Changmai Beagle]

Arrogance Knows No Bounds?

Willem - Sorry to disagree with your post. I most whole-heartedly agree than many Americans could do with less arrogance....

However, the same can be said of many of us Canadians. I am often saddened by the arrogant anti-American sloganing we hear. That does not mean you, I think your point is probably from the heart.

My experience is that people in Canada are pretty similar to those in the U.S. - at least those on either side of the border on the prairies. (Except for their strange Mericn accents and pre-Johnstonian spelling habits). Maybe the cities are different, I travel more often overseas than to large U.S. cities.

As always, patriotism is the last refuge of scoundrels. Or as I like to put it, use the flag to wrap around garbage long enough and it begins to carry a certain aroma.

Lib - A technical question. Could one argue that arrogance can be exercised without restraint within the Right, since it does not necessarily affect anyone else's interests?

Back on Topic - I am an occasional cheater. IIRC the initial question was to try and understand why someone would cheat. I play by the rules, don't use exploits I consider unfair, but I will definitely save from time to time and sometimes if I have followed a strategy that leads to disaster I will go back to where I think I went wrong and try again. I usually let myself have one 'do-over' and then start a new game. This generally happens when I have a map that I find interesting - and I really hate to trade it in. I will also restart from the beginning on an interesting map, even though this does give me an advantage in knowing layout.

Interesting maps are ones that have strategic interest, such as pinch points, separation by deserts, etc. that let me develop different strategies to try and use the terrain.

That's why I cheat in these situations. It's more interesting than a non-interesting new map (although there is almost always the thrill of exploration in a new map).

Oh - I also abandon games where I am on a small island or start with nothing but desert or mountains and the outcome is essentially forordained.

P.S. I wish we had a bit of impassable (or near impassable) terrain.... and that the panagea map setting worked properly.

[Willem]

Originally posted by Andrew Cory
Ah-HA! I knew that the ugly American thing was a bit overblown. Perhaps if you represented your true country when you traveled abroad, it would change the general perception of Americans...

Are you trying to imply here that we Canadians are jerks?

Originally posted by Andrew Cory

Of course, (granting that we Americans really _are_ arrogent, a lot of the dislike of America comes from the fact of our power, not what we do with it.

I beg to differ, but up here in Canada we've grown accustomed to the fact that you Yanks like to push your weight around. We've come to expect that from your country in most of our negotiations with you. If you'd like an example, take a look at our current dispute regarding softwood lumber. Even though the WTO agreed with us the last time your people brought up the exact same issues, you insist on battling it out again. Sometimes you just refuse to take no for an answer.

[facistdictator]

Willem what kind of crack have you been smoking! Your going to sit there and preach to me about offending you with a quote thats not even mine, and yet telling Andrew Cory about how all americans are a certain way. Let me clue you in on a little advice, your being a racist by saying that all americans are one way, just because you may have had a bad experience with one, or maybe you feel a little denial because your a canadian and not American so therefore you put other countries down if there not canadian.

I've always been facinated by people who scream there against nazism and racism and yet the very seed of that type of movement is in there words by trying to put down other people because there from America or anywhere else. There's nothing wrong with national pride Willem but dont try to impose your manical canadian will on others just because there not canadian. Be thankful you have a country and land of your own, just dont implement your fascist canadian baffle on us peace loving Americans.

[Andrew Cory]

Originally posted by Willem


Are you trying to imply here that we Canadians are jerks?

Oops! I can see how you would infer that from what I wrote. But no, I would not say that Canadians are jerks. I mean, some are, but as a rule, no. I say that as someone who knows quite a few canadians, though obviously not a huge sample of the population...

What I was trying to say was this: (in response to someone who claims to be from Chicago) If you claimed identity as an American, and actualy are polite to those whose civilisations you visit, it would begin to undo some of that "ugly American" image that we get tagged with. By impersonating a Canadian, all you (again, still speaking to the American) do is alow those Americans who are not at all polite to become the only image of Americans that most non-Americans might have...

Originally posted by Willem
I beg to differ, but up here in Canada we've grown accustomed to the fact that you Yanks like to push your weight around. We've come to expect that from your country in most of our negotiations with you. If you'd like an example, take a look at our current dispute regarding softwood lumber. Even though the WTO agreed with us the last time your people brought up the exact same issues, you insist on battling it out again. Sometimes you just refuse to take no for an answer.

You can dissagree all you want, but you are ignoring half of my statment:

quote:

Originally posted by Andrew Cory

Of course, (granting that we Americans really _are_ arrogent), a lot of the dislike of America comes from the fact of our power, not what we do with it.

Did you miss the bit in Parentisis? we "_are_ arrogent". We _do_ throw our weight around. At the same time, there is quite a bit of dislike at the fact of American power, not the use of it. As an Example, many europeans hate the fact that it took American power to make the balkans peacekeeping efforts work.

[Grumbold]

I'd just thought of something pertinent to cheating to share here, but I see this thread has gone way beyond any hope of being dragged back to the original topic. Mark? Ming? Anyone going to put it out of its misery?

[Willem]

Originally posted by Andrew Cory

Did you miss the bit in Parentisis? we "_are_ arrogent". We _do_ throw our weight around. At the same time, there is quite a bit of dislike at the fact of American power, not the use of it. As an Example, many europeans hate the fact that it took American power to make the balkans peacekeeping efforts work.

OK, I missed the implications there, sorry. A little misunderstanding on both sides of the border tonight I guess. Though I'm pleased that you don't think we Canucks are jerks. At least not until the next time we win the World Series.

[Willem]

Originally posted by Grumbold
I'd just thought of something pertinent to cheating to share here, but I see this thread has gone way beyond any hope of being dragged back to the original topic. Mark? Ming? Anyone going to put it out of its misery?

Are you some sort of quitter or something? Speak your mind, boy! Spit it out! A couple of posts should get things back on track.

[Andrew Cory]

Originally posted by Willem


OK, I missed the implications there, sorry. A little misunderstanding on both sides of the border tonight I guess. Though I'm pleased that you don't think we Canucks are jerks. At least not until the next time we win the World Series.

Right, and that will be just about... Never again. esp. with half your teams ceasing to exist soon...

BTW: if I had ever seriously said "Canadians are jerks" (as opposed to humorously, which I do all the time ), a rather strong former PPCLI infantry grunt would try to beat the heck out of me. In fact, if she walks in and sees this post, she might try it anyway...
*grin*
You don't happen to know billy or Sue from Canada, do you? They are very nice people...

Now, as far as cheating goes, I do and here is why:
I am a poli-sci major. I have experience with trying to keep governments functional. Every now and then, I enjoy the hell out of myself by pretending that everything will work out perfectly, with minimal struggle; the bugets will always ballance with no cutbacks, and I _can_ invade anyone who annoys me. For this, I have Civ3...

[Willem]

Originally posted by Andrew Cory


Right, and that will be just about... Never again. esp. with half your teams ceasing to exist soon...

One was all we needed last time, and they're the team that will still be here!

Besides it's only fair, you've had the Stanley Cup more than we have for awhile now.

[Salvor]

Jeez guys, you're making me sorry I made the Canadian comment in the first place. I wasn't 100% serious about the disguise, either. I freely admit my true citizenship when I travel abroad. And I truly AM proud of my country and the principles on which it was founded. Which is one of the reasons I am embarrassed when people such as facistdictator [sic] represent us in such a bad light.

And FD, I know it's beyond hope to try to reason with you, but could you please point out one single example of anyone on this board trying to impose their will on you? I've re-read every post several times, and don't see it anywhere. Also, I'd be more inclined to believe what you spout about the ills of racism if you didn't have that quote from Rudolf Hess in your signature line. This thread contained a nice, friendly discussion until you came along. At this point I wouldn't be at all surprised or disappointed if the moddies shut it down or removed it. So in a way you've imposed your will on all of us and stifled our freedom to express our differing opinions in a civil manner. And you claim to do this "in the name of freedom". Do you even realize how frequently you contradict yourself?

Here's a small exercise for you that might (although I doubt it) help out: take one of your own posts, and switch around the words "American" and "Canadian". Then read it again pretending that it was written by someone else. Now tell me what you think of the person who wrote it.

[Andrew Cory]

Originally posted by Willem


One was all we needed last time, and they're the team that will still be here!

Besides it's only fair, you've had the Stanley Cup more than we have for awhile now.

To be honest, I don't follow hockey. Comes from living in the Civlized clime of California. *grin*...

But if the Sharks ever start to do well, expect me to know everything there is to know about hockey, starting yesterday...

Oh, and the 'Jays? Did not! They espetialy did not beat my A's!

[jackshot]

Man, this thread went out to left field in a hurry...

Are Americans arrogant, self-rightous, and what was that, oh, narrow-minded? Jesus, the pope isn't that Catholic.

I'm an American, all I can say is it's worse than you think.

On the cheating front, if there still is one - it used to be that a clever boy could think up how to castle in chess or to put money on Free Parking, now we must beg developers for the right to do half as much. Such is life.