What's the deal with Cheaters?

[Dis]

I don't get it. This game isn't very hard. True I haven't beaten Diety, but that is because I stopped playing. What's the point of beating Diety if you cheat.

I can't believe people went through those steps to find those cheat codes.

Do people really spend all day long doing weird things to find cheats?

Enlighten me into the mind of a cheater. I will be most appreciative.

[Libertarian]

There was a thread here about that last year. Basically, their rationale was that so long as they are cheating no one but themselves, it isn't really cheating. It might have sufficed to have stopped with those insults to their own self-interest and esteem, but unfortunately they took it a step further and dismissed those who refuse to cheat as holier-than-thou hypocrites.

[Dis]

yeah I may have skimmed over that thread.

I'm thinking about doing something crazy. I'm thinking about playing civ3.

[Arrian]

Cheat codes

I don't understand the desire for cheat codes, either, unless it's for scenario making/testing. I'm not about to lecture anyone for cheating in a single player game, but I personally don't get it. *Shrug* To each their own, I guess. There are people who think Civ III is very hard, by the way, mostly because they don't spend the time to learn how the game works. I know such a person at work, who keeps getting thrashed on chieftain. He doesn't know basic things like the need for aqueducts to go past size 6, that marketplaces make extra people happy if you have 3+ luxuries, etc. His response to RTFM? Bah! I just wanna jump in and play... why's this game so hard?

-Arrian

[Heliodorus]

I cheat on the final boss level of any FPS game I ever play. That's because those final boss levels are usually insanely boring, and all I want to get to at that point is the final cutscene. One of my greatest disappointments was not being able to enter a god mode cheat for System Shock 2, because I didn't have the patience to try to fight "the perfect fight" to get to the final cutscene.

I cheated on Age of Wonders after the first try, because I just wanted to exploit the spell system to see what it could do.

I didn't cheat on any Civ game unless it was to do something outlandish for humor (flying triremes in Civ1 being my favorite memory along that vein).

What's interesting to me is the group of people who, in playing Civ3 and not attaining their personally desired result, blame the game... This reveals something important about temperment, methinks. I should'nt be surprised (I suppose I'm more alarmed than surprised) it's a mad culture.

[Harovan]

I also refuse to change the game's rules, but besides the "make game easier" type cheaters, I have seen 2 interesting other types:

- Some try to make the game more fun by editing the rules. For example, they add early units without nationality, to deal with the wandering settlers. The thing is, that's not really a cheat, because (as they report) the AI uses them as well, for example to pillage your improvements.

- Some try to make the game even harder, e.g. by removing the combat bonus with barbarians.

[Seghillian]

Anyone who is down on cheats or down on those who won't cheat is showing a remarkable degree of intolerance.

I've enjoyed playing CIV, CIVII, CIVIII and SMAC at "Iron Man" settings where available AND using lots of save/reload and cheat modes. It's my game and I do what I like with it. "Cheating" does not exist in a SP game, only in multiplayer or an event like GOTM. I recall a favourite technique in CIV II was to give my stone age tribe a couple of stealth bombers at the start just for, well, fun really. (And I can tell you that they took the occasional point of damage when bombing warriors - the spearmen vs tank debate is not new).

CIV in all it's guises is a great game. Play it without cheating and try and outdo previous performances or join competitions like GOTM. Or use every trick in the book, and tinker, just to find out more about the game. Fancying a quick game the other day I used the editor to make my "Immortals" just that with an ADM of 10/10/3. It was fun. I didn't brag to anyone about my score so there's no harm done. If that doesn't apeal to you - cool - you play it your way. Different strokes


Live and let live.

[Thrawn05]

I play the game and try beat the game at the highst difficulty before I might cheat. I don't really. For FPS games, I might use some sort of cheat that stops the AI from moving and reacting to you, and get to the end of the level, save it, turn the AI back on, and play the level backwards. I used to do this with JK, its fun.

[Steve Clark]

I don't get it either, :shrug: . That's why I said that if you wanted (or demanded by one poster) to have known starting locations for each of the civs, that would be cheating. It's fine if someone wants to play a non-scenario game that way, but why would you demand Firaxis to build in a cheat option (again, outside of the editor)?

[Adagio]

I just don't see why you are complaining about other people cheating in SP games. If they want to cheat, just let them cheat, it's not like they're harming you in some way.

Personally I never cheat in strategy games, last time I did was in Civ1 I think (Come on, I was about 10-12 years old and just wanted to win, I hated to lose ).

Ok, somebody might call this cheating to edit the game rules, but what I have changed in Civ3 is mostly best for the AI: I made all ships sail longer per turn, and I'm usually late when taking my first trip over the ocean so it gives a great advantage for the AI. Some wonders has more culture, but most of those wonders is of a very low priority for me.

The only games I cheat in is in FPS games. The reason is that I only like such games for a short amount of time, and when I get startet in a game I also want to finnish it.

[Adagio]

Originally posted by Steve Clark
I don't get it either, :shrug: . That's why I said that if you wanted (or demanded by one poster) to have known starting locations for each of the civs, that would be cheating.

I both agree and disagree. Ofcause it will help the player alot if he knows exactly where the enemies are starting, but on the other hand, it will be pretty boring to be playing the Americans in South Africa and Germany is starting in Japan.

To have known starting locations for all civs could be a good thing for e.g. tournaments, like if the holder of the tournament want to make sure that the player first contacts a very war-like civ to make the game more difficult. This means only the creator of the map knows where who is hiding and therefore the players don't know where they are.

[Dis]

no to mention when England starts in the middle of asia . their man o wars are quite useless.

[Salvor]

IMHO, there's a big difference between cheating and modding. Most of what I've heard described on this thread (like flying triremes) falls under the category of modding. There's no moral or ethical dilemma regarding modding. It's not done to boast, or pretend you're better at something, it's just a way to add fun and extend the playable lifespan of a game. Modding is good.

Cheating, from a moral and ethical standpoint, is bad. Pretending you're better than you really are, boasting to your "friends" that you've accomplished something you haven't, or at its worst, trying to gain an unfair advantage in a tournament or GOTM is cheating.

If someone wants to cheat in a SP game, I won't try to stop them, and I couldn't care less what they do when they're alone "behind closed doors" so to speak. But if someone asks me what I think of them, I won't lie, and if they do ask, they have no legitimate basis to criticize me for telling the truth.

[Libertarian]

I once hit a golf ball that rested on a smoldering pile of ash because it wasn't marked as ground under repair.

[Salvor]

What kind of club did you use? It would seem to me that an ash pile wouldn't be much differnt from a bunker. You're not going to get much compression, so you shouldn't strike directly at the ball. Instead, you should scoop the ash out from under it much as you would the sand in a bunker.

But also would the heat from the ash change the aerodynamics enough to alter the flight? Or would the air turbulence from the temperature difference negate any benefit gained?

But how does this relate to the topic at hand? I think I know. If you hit a ball onto an ash pile that wasn't marked as ground under repair, then it's in bounds and you can hit it. Not cheating.

But if you hit a ball behind a tree so that you have no clear shot, and decide to burn the tree down to get it out of your way, and this is where the ash pile came from in the first place, then I'd say you need therapy.

Maybe you should build that hospital after all.