What's the deal with Cheaters?

[Dis]

of course this was in response to that god mode cheat code.

What use would you have for all of those things?

As for mods, they aren't cheating. I mod navy units all the time. Since it's obvious Firaxis knows nothing about the navy . The ai gets access to these same features.

I have saved reloaded in the past. But it seems silly now. Especially since the game isn't that hard. I might be inclined to do that if the game was impossibly hard and I couldn't win any other way.


I will admit, I have cheated on games in the past to win them. Either by looking up walkthoughs (small cheat but still a cheat), or using cheat codes. Eventually I reach a point in the game I can go no further. It only makes good economical sense that I cheat . Why pay good money for a game I cannot finish? But most games are easy enough I can win without cheating, but not all of them are that easy.

[Thrawn05]

Originally posted by Willem
I agree. A lot of people feel that since I'm making changes in the editor that I do so in order to make it easier to win. Frankly I could care less about my final score, that's not my motivation at all. I have an empire to run damn it!

AMEN!

The only changes I made were to the resources. I made it so none disappear (or reappear). Now many people might say that this is a big advantage to me, but it ISN'T! If I find out in the end that coal or Al are not on my turf, I have to either trade with someone who has it, or go for an all out war. Usually, its the latter, since they usually only have one source.

[bahoo]

Bah, everyone's cheated.

You've all done the save/reload cheat when things go awry, or restarted a bunch because you started in a tundra with no rivers!

[Willem]

What does restarting have to do with cheating?

[Libertarian]

It is a logical fallacy to project a limited sampling into a generalized truth. When you say "everybody", a single counter-example suffices to render your assertion false.

[volcanohead]

But the question is, can you personally provide that counter-example?

[Libertarian]

You ask that of a man who hit a golf ball from a smoldering pile of ash? I play the game. If I win, I win. If I lose, I learn.

[bahoo]

Originally posted by Libertarian
You ask that of a man who hit a golf ball from a smoldering pile of ash? I play the game. If I win, I win. If I lose, I learn.

Cheating at golf and cheating at a computer game are two completely different things. You can justify cheating at a computer game because the computer cheats, a spearmen shouldn't be able to kill a tank, or any other myriad of reasons. But in golf, you're just cheating yourself because there is no one else to blame, it's just you and the ball.

I like how you completely avoid answering the question, but in the same motion suggest that you don't cheat using your strange smoldering golf ball analogy. Nice try, Lib, but we all know you're an obsessive reloader who keeps trying the same turn over and over till you get it right.

On an aside, how is it that you came to hit your ball onto a smoldering pile of ash?

[Steve Clark]

That, Lib, is a signature.

[jackshot]

One man's cheat is another's play balance.

And sorry Libertarian, but your point is not well taken. You can learn a lot cheating, you know. Don't assume everyone is as accustomed to just jumping in as you seem to be. With a cheat mode, I can cut the learning curve of a game in half, more if the game is unfamilar. I consider them almost required to learn a long game - so I can experience the endgame that would have been if not for my false starts. Learning something.

Point two is how you can use the cheat mode after you have learned the game to make the game run smoother or rougher as your heart desires. With Civ2, I used to play with the CM on all the time and I evolved rules, like retired units and supply lines (which affected only me), and I would smooth out the terrain a bit as I needed (which helped me). All this added up to a playable game with consistent scoring for comparision, at least on my computer. To call this cheating, I don't get it. I just call it home rules.

Point three is the obvious use for scenario creation and testing.

All this, and the argument on the other side always seem to boil down to a plea for manhood. WTF, you people. I get the the point about the golf ball in the ashes and your friend's honesty, but do you really want a world where one could never, under any circumstances or level of play (other than specifically spelled out in the rules) move a ball on a course? Because that's the analogy, right?

[Ironikinit]

Something tells me bahoo's been lurking a while.

[Libertarian]

That, Lib, is a signature.

I'm honored, Steve. Thank you.

Cheating at golf and cheating at a computer game are two completely different things. You can justify cheating at a computer game because the computer cheats, a spearmen shouldn't be able to kill a tank, or any other myriad of reasons. But in golf, you're just cheating yourself because there is no one else to blame, it's just you and the ball.

Just cheating yourself? Forgive me, but I cannot fathom so low a self-esteem.

There is no reason that a man could not rationalize (what you call "justify") cheating at golf the same way. After all, a tree shouldn't grow right by the fairway, and they did the pin placements unfairly.

I like how you completely avoid answering the question, but in the same motion suggest that you don't cheat using your strange smoldering golf ball analogy. Nice try, Lib, but we all know you're an obsessive reloader who keeps trying the same turn over and over till you get it right.

I reload only when it is time to resume play. I do not reload to alter the outcome of a turn. Quite honestly, if you do this, you miss out on an awful lot of interesting learning experiences.

On an aside, how is it that you came to hit your ball onto a smoldering pile of ash?

That's just where it landed. It was my second shot on a par five at a fairly trashy course in South Carolina. They had actually burned some logs right beside the fairway the night before, and they were still smoldering when my ball landed in them. They weren't marked as GUR, so I hit the ball.

WTF, you people. I get the the point about the golf ball in the ashes and your friend's honesty, but do you really want a world where one could never, under any circumstances or level of play (other than specifically spelled out in the rules) move a ball on a course?

I don't hold other men to my own standards, and I don't expect them to hold me to theirs. Do as you wish.

[Salvor]

Jackshot, I think you are going to extremes, jumping to conclusions, and seeing ghosts where there really are none.

Read further up in the thread where there are discussions of "mods" versus "cheats". Not every rule change is a cheat. Modifying the game for learning, experimenting, or tweaking the game to suit your own tastes is not considered cheating by the community as a whole. Cheating generally involves some kind of misrepresentation, where you do it in a competition or to make someone (including yourself) believe that you have accomplished something that you haven't, like beating the game at Diety level.

I didn't see any pleas for manhood posted here. Nor did I see any expressed desire to eliminate anyone's ability to change the rules of the game as they see fit. If you want to cheat, go right ahead, it won't ruin my life. But if you misrepresent yourself or your achievements, don't expect me to have any respect for you. But just because I disapprove doesn't mean you can't do it. You don't need my permission to do anything. But you likewise can't force me or anyone else to be happy about your actions, or to refrain from expressing our opinions of people who misrepresent their accomplishments.

The analogy is not a world where nobody can ever move a golf ball on a course. The analogy is a world where some people (or at least one person) can choose not to move a golf ball if he so desires.

BTW Lib, I hope you weren't wearing soft spikes at the time, or you might never have been able to get them out.

[facistdictator]

Hey Lib get a clue, everyone here knows you dont have wings on your back so chill out. That's the difference between me and you, I'm honest and your not. I dont judge people if they cheat, support abortion, or any other thing that is legal and under the law of the United States. That's why I love America, now if you and any other associates on this forum who agree with your almost communist ideology would like to save up enough money to buy a small island or nation and implement your sadistic laws so you can be the high pope and throw people who cheat on video games into concentration camps then thats fine, but please dont do it in the United States. LET ME SAY THIS ONE MORE TIME! IF YOUR NOT DOING ANYTHING ILLEGAL WHO CARES, AND I SAY MORE POWER TO YOU. IF A MAN WANTS TO CHEAT ON A VIDEO GAME HE BOUGHT WITH HIS MONEY, THEN BY GOD LET THE MAN CHEAT AND PISS ON WHAT YOU OR ANYBODY ELSE THINKS ABOUT IT!

[Salvor]

Fascistdictator, are you one of the ones who can't figure out why the rest of the world thinks we're arrogant, self-righteous, and narrow-minded?

I know you have every right to be just as arrogant, self-righteous, and narrow-minded as you want, but when you do it so loudly, it causes problems for those of us who like to travel overseas without being ashamed of our countrymen and trying to disguise ourselves as Canadians.