Should I Buy CivIII?

[Libertarian]

Funny, the parts that Wiglaf quoted really did look like the same old whines to me.

But what an original take from you. Ironik, init?

Does that [bizarre unit activation sequencing] happen often?

Constantly.

But if, like Ironkinit, your tactics and strategies require little concentrated thought or continuity, it might not bother you. If it's okay by you to attack with a unit, then order a worker to move who is stationed on some other continent, then move a transport, then move an artillery piece, then find yourself back in your original battle theater with some arbitrary unit active, then you'll have no problem. Likewise, if you don't mind forcing the interface to stay attuned to what you're doing by carefully scrolling and clicking, you'll have no problem.

Had to do that in civ2, no problem there.

Yes, but in Civ2, it was sufficient to improve only the city radius tiles. In Civ3, unless you want to throw away advantages in mobility, both for warfare and the incessant pollution cleanups, you must improve every tile within your cultural borders with at least roads and railroads. (In Civ3, for example, an enemy unit has no movement bonus on roads and railroads within your borders.)

Although, I'm curious about what's the exact problem with the modern age and how it's different from the earlier ones - seems to me a lot of people don't like it, and it'd be good to get the exact reason why.

One word: tedium.

Few interesting decisions are left. You find yourself with a bazillion workers that were made necessary by the game's design. And the flaws in automating them require that you either compromise your game or move them yourself. You are constantly dismissing modal message boxes one at a time — for each of your cities! — as the Domestic Nag begs you to build aqueducts and hospitals even when they don't make any sense whatsoever. Critical notifications, meanwhile, fly by far too fast to read, leaving you to hunt down pollution, expansion, and resource changes on a map with extremely limited zoom.

You begin to groan at the prospect of yet another turn.

[Ironikinit]

Oh, I'd have to say that the AI is better than I expected. Kam, surely you've played the game lots since you're an expert qualified to judge if somebody should buy the game so why not tell us all about how the AI in Civ 3 is better or worse than the AI in Civ 2 or AC. While you're at it, maybe you can help me find the flame forum around here so I can address you in the manner you deserve, you cheap commie ********er. If you want to call names, let's do it where I don't have to pull punches, ****er.

Anyway, yeah, the AI is pretty good, probably the best in the genre, and hostile. This can be countered by making sure that France is in the game, because Joan of Arc is a bit of a patsy.

Corruption is managable, but you have to make adjustments. Even then you'll lose maybe 10-15% of your city income and production. Distant cities might lose all but a single commerce and shield per turn. However, even that can be managed. Corruption is one of the biggest complaints people have. If you really hate it, you can go to the editor and make adjustments to reduce it. It's not even a cheap thing to do, because, well, it's your game for starters and it gives the AI the same benefit anyway.

Despite the complaints about late game tedium, it's no worse than in Civ 2 or AC with the exclusion (and this is a biggie) that tedium is worsened by the delay experienced on big maps with a lot of civs. Some of the changes to game mechanics are clearly intended to reduce tedium. Once you learn how to boss the automated workers around, for instance, they're a no brainer (expect scoffing and general grunting from perfectionists and malcontents). Also, the tech tree was streamlined and redundant units 86'd (prepare for squealing and protests).

So, how's the decision making process coming along, Wiglaf?

It really never does hurt to wait, you know. It'll be a while before the price drops, but a few people around here claim to be trying to unload their copy and it's on eBay, too, I hear.

[Libertarian]

Wiglaf, my primary complaints are now apparently moot (pending testing as to whether the new patch works). If Firaxis has done what it says it has done, the good now outweighs the bad.

[Wiglaf]

Anyway, yeah, the AI is pretty good, probably the best in the genre, and hostile. This can be countered by making sure that France is in the game, because Joan of Arc is a bit of a patsy.

It holds up during diplomacy?

Corruption is managable, but you have to make adjustments. Even then you'll lose maybe 10-15% of your city income and production. Distant cities might lose all but a single commerce and shield per turn. However, even that can be managed. Corruption is one of the biggest complaints people have. If you really hate it, you can go to the editor and make adjustments to reduce it. It's not even a cheap thing to do, because, well, it's your game for starters and it gives the AI the same benefit anyway.

So the whole corruption problem can be fixed in the editor? Not bad.

So, how's the decision making process coming along, Wiglaf?

I'll check back after the patch is released to see if all the advertised improvements are really in there. Then, odds are I'll pick it up from Compuexpert for around $35-40.

Wiglaf, my primary complaints are now apparently moot (pending testing as to whether the new patch works). If Firaxis has done what it says it has done, the good now outweighs the bad.

The AI/culture/diplomatic model's fine? Since the interface is pretty much fixed (if the patch works out), it's probably a safe buy now?

[Libertarian]

Yes. In my opinion, if the patch works, then the primary causes of late-game tedium have vanished.

[Willem]

Originally posted by Wiglaf

The AI/culture/diplomatic model's fine? Since the interface is pretty much fixed (if the patch works out), it's probably a safe buy now?

Yes, the new patch has addressed most of the major issues, so it's a safe buy. There will still be more that people will expect, and more glitches that come up, but for now the main beefs have been fixed. And that indicates to me they'll continue to improve on it, so it will just get better.

[Zoid]

Originally posted by Ironikinit
While you're at it, maybe you can help me find the flame forum around here so I can address you in the manner you deserve, you cheap commie ********er. If you want to call names, let's do it where I don't have to pull punches, ****er.

Is that foam I see coming out of your mouth, Iron? And don´t hold it back for christs sake, you might rupture an artery

[Ironikinit]

Well, the AI has diplomatic advantages. For instance, it will rarely, if ever, trade luxuries or resources with the human on a 1 to 1 basis. Also, it will trade during your turn. It holds up pretty well, tho, but it does do predictable things.

I don't know if corruption can be eliminated completely, but for me it adds to the game just as it is. It's a little crude as a way to limit empire sizes, and isn't really realistic as it's all based on distance from capital. Its inclusion rewards good managers, though, and limits unrealistic expansion.

It was a good buy all along, IMO. The patch could do a lot to silence the crybabies and attention whores, but that might be expecting too much.

Kam,

Is that a banana in your pocket, or are you an ass clown who gets off on being a minor annoyance online, where you can avoid the rewarding experience of picking up your teeth with broken fingers? Goodbye, ass clown. Your inability to answer questions or back up your claims makes you worthless to me.

[Zoid]

Originally posted by Ironikinit
Kam,

Is that a banana in your pocket, or are you an ass clown who gets off on being a minor annoyance online, where you can avoid the rewarding experience of picking up your teeth with broken fingers? Goodbye, ass clown. Your inability to answer questions or back up your claims makes you worthless to me.

If I thought you deserved an answer I´d give it to you, but as it is now I wouldn´t even piss on you if you were on fire. I will end this "discussion" now however, cause this has gone quite far enough.

[DaXX]

Yes, but no. At least not right at this very moment on this day. Wait until Friday when the 1.17f patch is released then buy the game and i think it's a worthy candidate.

I can't believe they released the game in the state they did so many months ago. i bought it right around the time it was released. ugh. things really didn't work right back then

[Encomium]

DO NOT BUY

I would not have bought it if I knew the following:

1. It has no scenario-building.

2. It has no cheat mode.

3. It is so dumb historically that bombers cannot sink warships.

4. Too few techs.

5. Too much corruption.

6. Too much of that "Culture Flipping" bullbleep.

7. Crazy stupid AI advisors.

And about three dozen other things. . .

[Encomium]

Originally posted by Leonidas
I would say, eventually buy the Gold Edition of Civ 3 (that will include all the patches, mods, editors, MP, etc). That will be a worthwhile buy. Civ 3 right now has many good things, but many bad things as well. Is it worth paying full price? Not as it stands right now. Maybe wait until it falls to half its price and pick it up then.

For half the money, you can purchase EU2 now, and it stands head and shoulders above Civ 3. If you want strategy, complexity, politics, economics, wars, religions, and diplomacy all wrapped up in an elegant interface, on a beautiful world map, with excellent unit animations and music, then this is the game to play. It spans the years from 1419 to 1819. You can play one of 200 countries! And all of the countries have their own provinces, military, alliances, religions, etc. So the replayability is awesome.

You could probably buy two games for the price of Civ3 right now. Check out the thread on "What other games are comparable to Civ3" thread for other ideas.

But make no mistake - the Civ 3 Gold Edition, if it includes everything it should, will be a worthwhile purchase later

In otherwords, those who paid for Civ III will have to pay for ANOTHER version of Civ III BECAUSE FIRAXIS EFFED UP WITH THE FIRST VERSION?? I will have to buy two Civ III's to get one that really works?!?

Anyone with a Civ III disk should be able to trade it in for the "Gold Edition" free of charge.

Firaxis seems determined to rip us off. I also expect $25 scenario disks soon since they didn't give us scenario-building in Civ III.


BTW, what is "EU2"??

[Skanky Burns]

Originally posted by Libertarian
...order a worker to move who is stationed on some other continent, then move a transport, then move an artillery piece, then find yourself back in your original battle theater with some arbitrary unit active...

I will give Firaxis this: They did get some of the unit activation sequence done extremely well. Each new turn you will start by moving all your artillery pieces, so you have the chance to bombard the hell out of any enemy units before risking yours on the attack. Only after you have given orders to all your artillery will it start processing the "other" units. This is where the problem is.

After doing the artillery, it will then process your workers, ground units, navy, basically everything except artillery, and not choose units from similar locations to jump to next. This is the part that the patch hopefully fixes

[Unregistered]

Originally posted by Encomium
BTW, what is "EU2"??

It's a game u should ck out. http://www.avault.com/reviews/review_temp.asp?game=eu2 I would have to agree w/ Leonidas's comments about EU in general, even though I haven't yet tried EU2. I've been resisting picking it up because I 'lost' six months of last year to the first EU. But soon I will, yes! And in most respects his comments apply to the original EU as well. My general impression of EU v CivIII is along the lines of a Corvette v a Geo Metro. To be fair, it's not quite an apples to apples comparison. The two big differences are that EU is RTS and only attempts to cover a few hundred years of history.

Cheers,

PS Sorry for the OT...

[Leonidas]

Originally posted by Encomium
BTW, what is "EU2"??

Europa Univeralis 2: It's a vast, complex game spanning the whole known world during the years 1419 to 1819 involving every facet of running a country and an empire. It has a steep learning curve, but it is a very rich, deep game.

If you love history, and if you love the feeling of being in a dynamic world of changing times, of crossing vast oceans, of exploring unknown lands, of fending off encroaching imperial powers, of trying to build armies and staking your claim in a hostile world, then this game is for you.

You can play as Spain or as China; you can try your hand at bringing Britain to greatness; or change history and make Portugal a great power; lead America to an early rise to greatness; or have Holland forge powerful alliances and become a colonizing empire. In fact, you can play as one of 200 countries. . .

Talk about your options